Beef Drop work in progress

[kenfused]

Concerning the "Pepper Out" notification jingle, it does not play for either the Data East or DECO versions of the game. However, in the US, Data East licensed Burgertime for distribution by Bally Midway. That version does contain the "Pepper Out" notification jingle, and was the most common distribution of the game in the US.

 

Regardless, if you decide to ever add the jingle or not, this port is fantastic. I really appreciate it.

 

-Trebor

Added sound effect (for pokey only).

Let me know if there are any problems

bd7800demo.zip

[kenfused]

Final version maybe.

 

There is still a problem that the out of pepper sound does not play if you mute the beef drop background music (which can be accomplished by flipping the left difficulty switch in game, don't know how many knew about that feature).

 

Changed color of fries and slight edit to coffee.

bd7800demo.zip

[Trebor]

Absolutely amazing! Thank you for adding the "no peppers left" jingle notification. This port is unbelievable. Really outstanding work!

 

An especially *huge* thank you for sharing this with the community.

[Paranoid]

On the Great ROM distribution debate... and piracy in general...

 

I'm going to be frank... if I want a game, 99 times out of 100, I'll find it. It might be an exhaustive search, a pain in the ass, a headache, and take me some places where I'd rather not visit, but I'll get it. Additionally, if it was HARD for me to find, I'm more likely to have sympathy for OTHER people having the same problem and wanting the same thing, and be more likely to distribute. Especially if I think the reason it was hard to find is a bullshit reason. As a game author, I think that it might help to understand the mindset of a highly technical consumer on this issue.

 

Now, with all that said... if I can download the rom IMAGE from your site, reliably, easily, guaranteed, accessible, with you standing behind the ROM ("Oh, you accidently lost your hard drive and lost your original ROM image? Sure, here is a unlock-key, go ahead and download it again, you REALLY should make multiple back-ups though"), I'd MUCH rather do that, every time.

 

Might I distribute the ROM that I bought? Eh... there is a chance, in all honesty. Some GOOD friend goes, "Ohhhh, come on, please, don't be a tightwad, think of all the things I've done for you"... and it might twist my arm. And of course, I know once that cat is out of the bag, all bets are off. Additionally, in a lot of cases, whatever protection you put in is pretty easy to strip. If not by me, by my general circle of associaties. My wife used to work for Chip Gracey, he is the owner and president of a company called Parallax, they make the Basic Stamp kit (an IC with a BASIC interpeter built into it, good for home electronic projects, you can get it at Fry's). His big claim to Hacker/Cracker/Pirate fame is that in high school he built the Cold-ICE device that grabbed the memory image of a C=64 and dropped it to a disk file with a loader routine. It existed SOLELY to bypass on-disc protection, and worked real well. He isn't doing this kind of thing anymore, but this is just an illustration of how long guys like me have been doing stuff like that, and who we've met in *that* community over the years. But, honestly, Quake 3, Doom 3... anything with a key that is talking to home and I *know* it... I'm hanging on to that original, and my friends aren't dumb enough to even ask. So, you can protect your code with some pretty passive technology. It doesn't have to severely limit my rights (and it if DOES that is liable to piss me off) or be awkward and cause problems for ME. The more invasive you make your protection scheme, the less likely I am to abide by it.

 

The OTHER thing that software authors and publishers get caught up in is their "LOST" sales because of piracy. Listen... the newest XP patch isn't going to make me go out and buy XP. I'll *never* be a LOST sale. What I'll be is a lost part of your UNOFFICIAL numbers. I'll move to something else, like Linux, in this example. If you make the headache to use your product too bad to deal with, I'll simply find something else that your actions have made LESS of a headache than dealing with you. And, although you may have seen those "illegal copies" as HURTING your business, as your market starts to shrink and your competitor starts to GROW, you might change your mind about if I was hurting or HELPING your sales.

 

Finally, none of this is *justification*. I don't *care* what you think about the morality of my philosophy on this issue. Multi-million dollar ad campaigns that say that I am no different than a shop-lifter have *zero* emotional impact on me.

 

Your product is just one (not necessarily YOU, Kenfused... but whoever), in a FLOOD of products, much of them not worth the price of admission. There are some movies I wouldn't even waste a DVD on. There are some I would never *buy*, but might take the time and effort to rip... then there are ones that are so good, so worthwhile, that I'll actually buy them. Period. NOTHING will change my opinion of that. So going after me for "stealing" your "crap" doesn't really change anything. All you're doing is wasting time and effort protecting something that I don't want bad enough in the first place. You *must* be thinking, "If he wants it bad enough to steal it, he'll buy it if I make it hard enough to steal". But you're *often* wrong. Almost always. If it is lying in the gutter in front of your house, I might take it, but if it is inside your garage, I'll walk right by. That is a better analogy. A lot of the software authors/publishers are spending millions of dollars protecting garbage that they should just be leaving lying in the street. Netscape learned a lesson about this... They want to argue that it is an example of the model, "Once you set the price as FREE, it is hard to get people to pay for something". I'd counter, "Sometimes something that is REALLY popular for FREE, isn't worth a DIME to anyone, otherwise..."

 

So if I'm a pirate, I'm a pragmatic one. I buy the VAST majority of my music now (and MOST of the music I've "pirated" I've bought, sometimes multiple times, over the years, which *is* my justification). The RIAA made it easy for me to pay for music, reliable music, that someone was standing behind, from legitimate sources. Ok... Apple did this, really. But the RIAA got behind it. The point is, the more they FOUGHT it, the more it slipped through their hands. They wanted to control content delivery, they wanted to control the ability to copy, which devices you could listen on. They were holding on too tight, and they were losing it, and losing BOATLOADS of money in the process... all while being terrified that they were losing MORE money because of piracy. Piracy wasn't the PROBLEM, it was a symptom - It is throughout the industries that suffer it. Make it easy, accessible, priced sanely, supported, reliable, and quality, and it will sell. You want to talk about justification? Half the industry is busy trying to justify their shitty products by claiming that the reason they aren't selling more is *piracy*, not the substandard quality of their over-priced products.

 

I *hate* dancing around this issue here on AtariAge. Why do things like the CC2 and the AtariMax 128 USB cart exist? There aren't enough people around who legitimately own enough of the available titles to make the creation of these products SOLELY for them economically feasible. Let me rephrase that... the CC2 and AtariMax 128 USB carts exist because there is a large market of PIRATES, not because there is a large market of collectors who want to load ROM images of their carts on a convienient to use device. Some people may use their CC2 or 128-in-one for this purpose, but not the VAST majority of people who own these devices. This issue *is* the pink elephant in the Retro community. We all sit around ignoring it, but it is always right there in every thread, unspoken and ignored.

 

I'm glad to support the homebrew community, the guys who make aftermarket electronics for the retro consoles, I know almost NONE of them are rich, even by my standards. They're not evil, souless corporations trying to milk every dollar from the community. And generally, I don't think it is a HUGE problem... almost all of the people who make these things are *real* cool about distributing demos, allowing ROMs to float around, not being uptight about distribution of their code, and actually going out of their way to provide support for these devices that concievably "lose" them sales of actual carts. I'd *really* like a method to be able to get a legitimate, licensed copy of just about ANY concievable ROM image for a reasonable price. For me, it would be BIGGER than the ability to download any song I want, at any time, legally and legitimately. So, I'm a vote for making the ROM image available, for a reasonable fee, with reasonable protections for both the consumer and the merchant/owner. I'm *less* enthusiastic about the idea of "buy the cart, get the ROM image for free"... but if I really wanted the game, this would be better than nothing, for me. Not distributing at ALL is the *worst* thing you could do, though. If you think it is going to FORCE me to buy the cart, you're simply *wrong*. I won't, but I still am pretty likely to enjoy the full, non-demo efforts of your coding sooner or later. I don't see that as *my* fault, and I don't care if you think otherwise.

 

Ok... /rant. But, I know this is a sensitive issue around here, so I'm not going to get pulled into any debate about morallity, justification, or responding to defend my position. This'll be it. I've spoken my opinion on the subject, and I think I covered it all pretty well.

[+Allan]

On the Great ROM distribution debate... and piracy in general...

 

Not distributing at ALL is the *worst* thing you could do, though. If you think it is going to FORCE me to buy the cart, you're simply *wrong*. I won't, but I still am pretty likely to enjoy the full, non-demo efforts of your coding sooner or later. I don't see that as *my* fault, and I don't care if you think otherwise.

 

 

Following this logic...

 

Step 1. Go get a gun.

Step 2. Go to your nearest bank and rob it. Make sure you take all the money.

Step 3. Put half of it in a box and mail it to me with no return address.(You can keep the other 50%)

 

Don't worry. No one will blaim you since you see stealing as "I don't see that as *my* fault, and I don't care if you think otherwise."

 

Allan

 

PS. Thanks for the money.

[Shawn]

On the Great ROM distribution debate... and piracy in general...

 

I'm going to be frank... if I want a game, 99 times out of 100, I'll find it. It might be an exhaustive search, a pain in the ass, a headache, and take me some places where I'd rather not visit, but I'll get it. Additionally, if it was HARD for me to find, I'm more likely to have sympathy for OTHER people having the same problem and wanting the same thing, and be more likely to distribute. Especially if I think the reason it was hard to find is a bullshit reason. As a game author, I think that it might help to understand the mindset of a highly technical consumer on this issue.

 

Now, with all that said... if I can download the rom IMAGE from your site, reliably, easily, guaranteed, accessible, with you standing behind the ROM ("Oh, you accidently lost your hard drive and lost your original ROM image? Sure, here is a unlock-key, go ahead and download it again, you REALLY should make multiple back-ups though"), I'd MUCH rather do that, every time.

 

Might I distribute the ROM that I bought? Eh... there is a chance, in all honesty. Some GOOD friend goes, "Ohhhh, come on, please, don't be a tightwad, think of all the things I've done for you"... and it might twist my arm. And of course, I know once that cat is out of the bag, all bets are off. Additionally, in a lot of cases, whatever protection you put in is pretty easy to strip. If not by me, by my general circle of associaties. My wife used to work for Chip Gracey, he is the owner and president of a company called Parallax, they make the Basic Stamp kit (an IC with a BASIC interpeter built into it, good for home electronic projects, you can get it at Fry's). His big claim to Hacker/Cracker/Pirate fame is that in high school he built the Cold-ICE device that grabbed the memory image of a C=64 and dropped it to a disk file with a loader routine. It existed SOLELY to bypass on-disc protection, and worked real well. He isn't doing this kind of thing anymore, but this is just an illustration of how long guys like me have been doing stuff like that, and who we've met in *that* community over the years. But, honestly, Quake 3, Doom 3... anything with a key that is talking to home and I *know* it... I'm hanging on to that original, and my friends aren't dumb enough to even ask. So, you can protect your code with some pretty passive technology. It doesn't have to severely limit my rights (and it if DOES that is liable to piss me off) or be awkward and cause problems for ME. The more invasive you make your protection scheme, the less likely I am to abide by it.

 

The OTHER thing that software authors and publishers get caught up in is their "LOST" sales because of piracy. Listen... the newest XP patch isn't going to make me go out and buy XP. I'll *never* be a LOST sale. What I'll be is a lost part of your UNOFFICIAL numbers. I'll move to something else, like Linux, in this example. If you make the headache to use your product too bad to deal with, I'll simply find something else that your actions have made LESS of a headache than dealing with you. And, although you may have seen those "illegal copies" as HURTING your business, as your market starts to shrink and your competitor starts to GROW, you might change your mind about if I was hurting or HELPING your sales.

 

Finally, none of this is *justification*. I don't *care* what you think about the morality of my philosophy on this issue. Multi-million dollar ad campaigns that say that I am no different than a shop-lifter have *zero* emotional impact on me.

 

Your product is just one (not necessarily YOU, Kenfused... but whoever), in a FLOOD of products, much of them not worth the price of admission. There are some movies I wouldn't even waste a DVD on. There are some I would never *buy*, but might take the time and effort to rip... then there are ones that are so good, so worthwhile, that I'll actually buy them. Period. NOTHING will change my opinion of that. So going after me for "stealing" your "crap" doesn't really change anything. All you're doing is wasting time and effort protecting something that I don't want bad enough in the first place. You *must* be thinking, "If he wants it bad enough to steal it, he'll buy it if I make it hard enough to steal". But you're *often* wrong. Almost always. If it is lying in the gutter in front of your house, I might take it, but if it is inside your garage, I'll walk right by. That is a better analogy. A lot of the software authors/publishers are spending millions of dollars protecting garbage that they should just be leaving lying in the street. Netscape learned a lesson about this... They want to argue that it is an example of the model, "Once you set the price as FREE, it is hard to get people to pay for something". I'd counter, "Sometimes something that is REALLY popular for FREE, isn't worth a DIME to anyone, otherwise..."

 

So if I'm a pirate, I'm a pragmatic one. I buy the VAST majority of my music now (and MOST of the music I've "pirated" I've bought, sometimes multiple times, over the years, which *is* my justification). The RIAA made it easy for me to pay for music, reliable music, that someone was standing behind, from legitimate sources. Ok... Apple did this, really. But the RIAA got behind it. The point is, the more they FOUGHT it, the more it slipped through their hands. They wanted to control content delivery, they wanted to control the ability to copy, which devices you could listen on. They were holding on too tight, and they were losing it, and losing BOATLOADS of money in the process... all while being terrified that they were losing MORE money because of piracy. Piracy wasn't the PROBLEM, it was a symptom - It is throughout the industries that suffer it. Make it easy, accessible, priced sanely, supported, reliable, and quality, and it will sell. You want to talk about justification? Half the industry is busy trying to justify their shitty products by claiming that the reason they aren't selling more is *piracy*, not the substandard quality of their over-priced products.

 

I *hate* dancing around this issue here on AtariAge. Why do things like the CC2 and the AtariMax 128 USB cart exist? There aren't enough people around who legitimately own enough of the available titles to make the creation of these products SOLELY for them economically feasible. Let me rephrase that... the CC2 and AtariMax 128 USB carts exist because there is a large market of PIRATES, not because there is a large market of collectors who want to load ROM images of their carts on a convienient to use device. Some people may use their CC2 or 128-in-one for this purpose, but not the VAST majority of people who own these devices. This issue *is* the pink elephant in the Retro community. We all sit around ignoring it, but it is always right there in every thread, unspoken and ignored.

 

I'm glad to support the homebrew community, the guys who make aftermarket electronics for the retro consoles, I know almost NONE of them are rich, even by my standards. They're not evil, souless corporations trying to milk every dollar from the community. And generally, I don't think it is a HUGE problem... almost all of the people who make these things are *real* cool about distributing demos, allowing ROMs to float around, not being uptight about distribution of their code, and actually going out of their way to provide support for these devices that concievably "lose" them sales of actual carts. I'd *really* like a method to be able to get a legitimate, licensed copy of just about ANY concievable ROM image for a reasonable price. For me, it would be BIGGER than the ability to download any song I want, at any time, legally and legitimately. So, I'm a vote for making the ROM image available, for a reasonable fee, with reasonable protections for both the consumer and the merchant/owner. I'm *less* enthusiastic about the idea of "buy the cart, get the ROM image for free"... but if I really wanted the game, this would be better than nothing, for me. Not distributing at ALL is the *worst* thing you could do, though. If you think it is going to FORCE me to buy the cart, you're simply *wrong*. I won't, but I still am pretty likely to enjoy the full, non-demo efforts of your coding sooner or later. I don't see that as *my* fault, and I don't care if you think otherwise.

 

Ok... /rant. But, I know this is a sensitive issue around here, so I'm not going to get pulled into any debate about morallity, justification, or responding to defend my position. This'll be it. I've spoken my opinion on the subject, and I think I covered it all pretty well.

 

 

Very, VERY well put. Thumbs up for Paranoid.

[Almost Rice]

On the Great ROM distribution debate... and piracy in general...

 

I dont know if it really affects Kenfused. He has basicly released the game for all to use. I think the only difference is that the purchased rom may have one more level. Most of us can live without the extra level and probably would buy or not try to find the purchased version because of this. I did not know there was any kind of debate on piracy.

[+Allan]

On the Great ROM distribution debate... and piracy in general...

 

I dont know if it really affects Kenfused. He has basicly released the game for all to use. I think the only difference is that the purchased rom may have one more level. Most of us can live without the extra level and probably would buy or not try to find the purchased version because of this. I did not know there was any kind of debate on piracy.

 

Yup, agree. To me the point is to support Kenfused in maybe making another game and send the message out to any prospective homebrewers that they would be supported as well.

 

Allan

 

PS. Paranoid, I was just messing with you. Yes we all know that most of the AA games are pirated but the point is to support anyone who might write a new game or who has written one from the homebrew perspective. If you wrote a game I liked on the 7800 or 5200, I would definitly buy it, wether you released the rom or not.

Edited July 6, 2006 by Allan

[Trebor]

On the Great ROM distribution debate... and piracy in general...

... I did not know there was any kind of debate on piracy.

 

I second that statement. I was kind of "taken back" by Paranoid's post right after mine (Nothing against Paranoid). My comments were meant to commend kenfused on his excellent work. My comments: "An especially *huge* thank you for sharing this with the community", honestly was not geared towards whether are not ROMs are released, but the fact that he did program something for what I feel is a fantastic system (I chose a 7800 over a NES back in the day).

 

There's probably many programmers out there who port or create games that are for their own personal use and are never seen by the public. It is wonderfully generous of kenfused to share his talents and programming with the rest of the "community". I am thrilled with Beef Drop, and I am excited too about Q*bert (Not as much only because my passion for the game is different).

 

Nevertheless, once again thank you to kenfused for providing such an excellent set of ports.

 

-Trebor

[Almost Rice]

When I buy a cart from a Homebrewer, I think of it as paying for the service of making the cart, label, manual, or box. In these limited runs, the costs for these things are pretty high. I am starting to learn that after component cost, board costs, and other material costs, the makers are not making that much money. Watching Metalguy add up the costs on the MIO and XE boards, he would be lucky make a profit. We are not even considering the labor involved. Its really a labor of love for enthusiasts like us. I requested the ROM for my CC2. Just so that I did not have to pull out the Cart. every time I wanted to play.

Edited July 6, 2006 by Almost Rice

[Paranoid]

I think you guys are missing my point.

 

 

Again, I'm not going to get sucked into defending, justifying, or explaining my post. Read it again, and again if necessary, I did, until I was content that it clearly stated my opinions in a strong but non-threatening way. Either you'll get it, and see it for what it is (I think Shawn Sr. clearly DOES), or you won't, too caught up in the emotions and strong opinions surrounding this debate. If you *can't* see outside of that, chances are no amount of persuasion on my part is going to change your mind, so it is a battle I'm not going to fight. And this isn't aimed at ANYONE, or following any ONE post's lead or theme. This was a response to a general theme in multiple posts through this thread and really throughout AtariAge and the Retro community in general. So, yeah, no one should feel threatened, persecuted, attacked, or taken aback by this post. If you feel like this was directed at you, that is some personal issue, not anything I was trying to achieve. There is also no judgement or even implication about what a cart or rom should cost, what is fair... Almost everyone has a good internal guide for what a FAIR price is, and what being obviously GOUGED is like. When you price things reasonably ($.99 per track for an iTunes song)... sales are good. If they raised most prices to say, $5 per track, how do you think iTunes sales would fare? When you can buy a program from a local retailer in retail box for $75, with documentation and a physical CD, then you go to the website and the download version with PDF file that you print out is $85... how reasonable does that seem? Are you likely to conclude, "This publisher would prefer that I buy the retail version at a store"... because that is what I do when I run into something like this. Nothing that I said is inflamatory or unreasonable. It is all simple logic and common sense, based on decades of observation of these industries.

 

My strongest point was, if you make it AVAILABLE for me to buy a game, I certainly will. But if you try to control and manage HOW that content is delivered to me (or try to restrict it altogether), you complicate our relationship... and open the doors to *losing* money while trying to get every last dime, and the previous models show, the MORE you squeeze, the more likely consumers are to resist. Retail sales has known the mantra for probably centuries, now... "The customer is ALWAYS right..."

 

My last point, the real important one, is that keeping the ROM image unreleased does NOT work. If you're worried about piracy, NOT releasing the ROM *isn't* the way to prevent it. I can't count the times I've seen posts here "I have the ROM image, but I won't release it" for one title or another. It is *bound* to get out, sooner or later, one way or another. So why pursue a policy of futility that actually ENCOURAGES piracy? When I read a post like that... "I have it, I won't give it out", it just tells me that there is INDEED an image out there, and that if I want it, I just have to keep turning over rocks. One more time, just to be clear, I'd rather have the option of SUPPORTING the author by being able to grab a legitimate copy of the ROM. I'm not interested in cluttering up my life with more individual carts than I already have. I *would* like to use the CC2 and the 128 to simply MANAGE my collection of LEGITIMATE ROMS. I bought it for this purpose (managing my games collection easily and without clutter), and I *will* use it that way... one way or the other... Make it easy for me to do so, and I'll support you. The concept that the author/publisher has the control is an illusion. Otherwise the recording industry would still be forcing us to buy music BUNDLED on CDs at the gross price point they want, instead of having conceded that we should be able to buy just the tracks we want, with the ability to listen to them on pretty much anything we want to. If anything, philosophically it is a difference of perspective on MORAL law (the author SHOULD have complete control) and NATURAL law (he may very well have complete control, but if no one is willing to accept his control (i.e., buy his product), then the point is pretty well moot).

 

Hey... what is that sucking sound and sensation... damnit!

Edited July 6, 2006 by Paranoid

[supercat]

I am starting to learn that after component cost, board costs, and other material costs, the makers are not making that much money.

 

Us homebrewers may not be making a lot of money, but even the $0.25/hour it all works out to is still something. Another thing to consider is that the purchase of a homebrew game is very much a vote of confidence in it. Many people will praise just about anything; the way to really tell what they like is to see where they spend their money.

[Paranoid]

I'm also playing devil's advocate to a certain extent here, simply for the sake of relevent dialog and giving voice to something that I know is on the mind of a lot of people, but going unsaid. Personally, almost ALL of the titles that are on any of my programmable carts, I have the cart version of. I largely completed my collection first prior to getting the CC2 or AtariMax cart. My non-programmable carts (a Sean Kelly dip switch 5200 cart and a Vectrex cart), are non-programmable, so, you know... who EVER thought that the purchaser of a non-programmable cart would have every cart contained therein prior to buying the cart, and evidently, the Vectrex stuff is all freely distributable, anyhow). The few titles that are not covered here (I've got three FB2s, so I feel pretty well entitled to a rom image of Warlords)... are generally NOT available and there is no company left to actually accept my money (buying used to be "legal" seems kind of redundant to me, when no one originally connected with the title will benefit or evidently even cares)... or were titles I wanted to demo, and am on the fence about (if I demo them and don't like them... why horde them, after all? Just one more slot to have to scroll by to get to something I *do* want to play).

 

Without a doubt, if there is a homebrew title I enjoy enough to play multiple times, and I *can* purchase the title, it is my goal to do so, simply to support the efforts and, like supercat said, give my vote of confidence. I feel that Chad Schell and Classics both have seen me put my money where my mouth is in this respect. Curt Vendel, indirectly, as well (a purchase of the FB2 is a vote of confidence for Curt's efforts, after all, and eventually "pays" some part of his salary at Infogrames/Atari). After all, these guys are doing this for us, making the community that much "richer". Robbing them only serves to discourage them in the future. That definetly isn't my goal. But you know, the argument is that this respect is a two way street. The RIAA was definetly NOT upholding their end of the bargain with respecting their customers, and it hurt them badly. Things have obviously improved, because you HARDLY hear them bitching anymore. They're still not happy, but they're certainly not in a blind panic lashing out at anyone from 12 year old girls to 80 year old grandmothers, like they were.

 

Common sense says the same model that fit so well there should work here and help solve a lot of controversey and allow everyone to breath a little easier, if implemented properly. I can't believe someone hasn't really pushed a licensed and clearly legitimate online ROM store with HUGE content already. The BIG problem I see is that such titles would need to be cheap... maybe LESS than music tracks. How are you going to convince Mean Hamster to sell licensed ROM images for $.50 when they can get $25-50 for an actual cart? You've got to get them seeing MUCH bigger scale... instead of reaching 1000 or 10000, they need to be able to reach 50,000 or 100000, or more. All of the play-for-pay services are faltering on the pricing, IMHO. It needs to be cheap, commodity stuff, I'd rather have 100,000 people taking a $.50 cent gamble on my homebrew game than 500 people taking a $50 gamble. These old school games, new or classic, have value, and LOTS of people would be willing to pay for them... on a solid emulator engine, on real hardware, on cel phones, PDAs and other digital devices. But the vast majority of people are going to look at Adventure 2 for $45 and Halo 2 for $50 and call it a no-brainer where their discretionary money is going to go. Even $4.50 via Verizon is too much for an unlimited subscription to Pac Man, for most people. $.50 (plus airtime), though, and their network might get bogged down with the traffic.

 

ALMOST everyone *wants* to be legal, if you make it easy enough for them to do so.

[supercat]

How are you going to convince Mean Hamster to sell licensed ROM images for $.50 when they can get $25-50 for an actual cart? You've got to get them seeing MUCH bigger scale... instead of reaching 1000 or 10000, they need to be able to reach 50,000 or 100000, or more. All of the play-for-pay services are faltering on the pricing, IMHO. It needs to be cheap, commodity stuff, I'd rather have 100,000 people taking a $.50 cent gamble on my homebrew game than 500 people taking a $50 gamble.

 

Well, I'd rather have $50,000 than $2,500 too, but I'd rather have e.g. 5,000 people taking a $10 gamble than 100,000 taking a $0.50 gamble. After all, to most people, $10 means something. If someone spends $10 on my game, I can figure it's because they want my game. If someone spends $0.50, maybe they were just bored.

 

One trend, though, that does worry me is the trend away from "permanent" media. If I buy a 2600 cart, it's mine forever until I sell it or otherwise dispose of it. I'll be able to show it to my grandchildren, should I live that long. If I sign up for an online gaming thing, what will I have to show for it?

[Shawn]

 

Well, I'd rather have $50,000 than $2,500 too, but I'd rather have e.g. 5,000 people taking a $10 gamble than 100,000 taking a $0.50 gamble. After all, to most people, $10 means something. If someone spends $10 on my game, I can figure it's because they want my game. If someone spends $0.50, maybe they were just bored.

 

 

You make a very good point also Supercat, I do buy homebrew games myself and I see exactly what you say about the 10 bucks vs 50 cents thing. I am VERY picky when it comes to games I buy for the ATARI old or new so if a new ATARI game gets my "$10 bucks" (well more like $25 most the time..lol) than its a damn good game.

[Paranoid]

I agree... the pricing thing becomes a numbers game where you try to figure out how you're going to maximize your numbers while also having the maximum price. I think the thing with retro games is, to get MASSIVE numbers, you've GOT to price them as curiosities, CHEAP diversions. Look at Jakks model. They're not using the HARDWARE to sell games (which is the traditional model of game consoles)... they're using the software to sell HARDWARE (their sticks are the product, not the software on them). No one is EVER going to end up in a Ferrari for designing a retro game, ever again. It happened, but those days are gone. But if someone can design retro games that sell HARDWARE, *that* person might find himself in a Ferrari for his efforts. The FB2... it wasn't hardware designed to sell the games on it... it was the other way around... the games bundled with it were designed to sell the HARDWARE. The games were effectively "freebies".

 

Does that model make sense? Do you see what I mean? You don't sell the hardware at a loss hoping to make up the difference making money on the software library... the software is just NEVER going to have that kind of mass appeal at that kind of pricepoint. The mass appeal comes when you make it so that a GANG of software is available for $30... Per game, the Flashback 2 games are less than $1.00 each. But you're not even paying that much for the games, you're paying MOSTLY for the hardware. This model works particularly well for the old titles that have already returned their profits, but, I'm afraid NEW retro games are going to have to use this model too... at least for any massive appeal.

 

Just my thoughts on it, anyhow.

[kenfused]

Has anyone tested the latest builds on PAL? Just want to make sure no PAL problems occurred from the sprite upgrade I did a couple release back. I am now considering the game done. I did fix problem with the last release that sometimes causes the out of pepper sound to stop.

 

I have assembled 3 carts to see how long it would take, but am waiting to here back from PM's I have sent Albert before I create any more (I also have to find my tube of eproms). I have about 10 total carts ready for eproms. These are being built on brand new recycled Ball Blazer carts. PS: I have also come to the conclusion that red end labeled Ball Blazers are not that rare.

 

--Ken

[+Mitch]

Has anyone tested the latest builds on PAL? Just want to make sure no PAL problems occurred from the sprite upgrade I did a couple release back. I am now considering the game done. I did fix problem with the last release that sometimes causes the out of pepper sound to stop.

 

I have assembled 3 carts to see how long it would take, but am waiting to here back from PM's I have sent Albert before I create any more (I also have to find my tube of eproms). I have about 10 total carts ready for eproms. These are being built on brand new recycled Ball Blazer carts. PS: I have also come to the conclusion that red end labeled Ball Blazers are not that rare.

 

--Ken

 

If no else does first I'll try to test on my PAL 7800 tonight.

 

Mitch

[Shawn]

Has anyone tested the latest builds on PAL? Just want to make sure no PAL problems occurred from the sprite upgrade I did a couple release back. I am now considering the game done. I did fix problem with the last release that sometimes causes the out of pepper sound to stop.

 

I have assembled 3 carts to see how long it would take, but am waiting to here back from PM's I have sent Albert before I create any more (I also have to find my tube of eproms). I have about 10 total carts ready for eproms. These are being built on brand new recycled Ball Blazer carts. PS: I have also come to the conclusion that red end labeled Ball Blazers are not that rare.

 

--Ken

 

You get about 1 per box and\or 9 per case. So ya your right, it's pretty common.

[+Mitch]

Has anyone tested the latest builds on PAL? Just want to make sure no PAL problems occurred from the sprite upgrade I did a couple release back. I am now considering the game done. I did fix problem with the last release that sometimes causes the out of pepper sound to stop.

 

I have assembled 3 carts to see how long it would take, but am waiting to here back from PM's I have sent Albert before I create any more (I also have to find my tube of eproms). I have about 10 total carts ready for eproms. These are being built on brand new recycled Ball Blazer carts. PS: I have also come to the conclusion that red end labeled Ball Blazers are not that rare.

 

--Ken

 

If no else does first I'll try to test on my PAL 7800 tonight.

 

Mitch

 

OK, I finally remembered to try this on my PAL 7800. Didn't notice any new issues during the several games I played.

 

Mitch

[kenfused]

 

 

If no else does first I'll try to test on my PAL 7800 tonight.

 

Mitch

 

OK, I finally remembered to try this on my PAL 7800. Didn't notice any new issues during the several games I played.

 

Mitch

 

Good to know. Thanks a bunch.

[rockman_x_2002]

I've been playing the latest version on emulator, and I have to say that your game is absolutely wonderful. Loads of fun, and great to see a new 7800 game show up. I've even shown the game to a lot of my friends who know I'm into Atari stuff, and even they were impressed at what you've made the 7800 do. I only wish I had a way to test it on my actual 7800 machine.

 

But above all, fun game here, and so far as I can see there are no bugs. Great stuff, kenfused.

[gdement]

PS: I have also come to the conclusion that red end labeled Ball Blazers are not that rare.

 

--Ken

 

You get about 1 per box and\or 9 per case. So ya your right, it's pretty common.

 

I'm confused. 1 per box? Wouldn't that be every game then? How many games in a case? I'm curious what the proportions are.

[Shawn]

PS: I have also come to the conclusion that red end labeled Ball Blazers are not that rare.

 

--Ken

 

You get about 1 per box and\or 9 per case. So ya your right, it's pretty common.

 

I'm confused. 1 per box? Wouldn't that be every game then? How many games in a case? I'm curious what the proportions are.

 

 

8 games in a "box" of games. 72 games in a "case".

[kenfused]

 

8 games in a "box" of games. 72 games in a "case".

 

So far for me I think the reds are winning. But it is early in the race.