180 replies to this topic

[jedijeff]

First of all I would like to say Curt is a great guy and the following is not about him but the flashback console and Infotari.

Curt Vendel said:

Atari wanted a product for the 04' holiday season or NO hardware would be considered now and the possibililty for the proposed future line of hardware would no longer be on the table -- this was a one shot chance, do nothing and that would close the door permanently, no if's and's or butt's.

This is complete bullshit. All it means is that they were trying to cash in before the market was oversaturated with this retro junk (which many believe has already happened.) Releasing this frankenstein console was a waste of time and energy that could have gone toward creating a good product. How fast something was made has no bearing whatsoever on whether people should spend their hard earned cash on it. Crap made in less time than other crap is still crap.

The people on these newsgroups aren't the only ones who know how screwed up these all-in-one games are. I have friends who got the jakks sticks as gifts last year, who haven't played the originals for years, and knew that things were missing, didn't look/sound/play right etc.

No real attempt was made by Infotari to create a quality product so I will not attempt to give them any credit for trying.

Jeff

[jedijeff]

else said:

Jeez with all the bad moves Atari has made in the past, you would think someone might actually learn from it.  Perhaps the Atari name is cursed and causes ordinary rational people to make really poor decisions?

Those who ignore mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.

Jeff

[else]

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Those who ignore mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.

Exact-a-mundo!!!

[Flojomojo]

jedijeff said:

This is complete bullshit. All it means is that they were trying to cash in before the market was oversaturated with this retro junk (which many believe has already happened.) Releasing this frankenstein console was a waste of time and energy that could have gone toward creating a good product. How fast something was made has no bearing whatsoever on whether people should spend their hard earned cash on it. Crap made in less time than other crap is still crap.  

[pedantic hat]Any project is constrained by time, money, and scope. Increase one factor, and you'd better have a plan for either supplementing the others, or making painful compromises.

Time -- Yeah, Atari is cashing in on the plug-n-play fad, because that's what companies do. Whining about the for-profit company's motives isn't going to change their behavior. If they didn't have a competing product out the gate by Xmas 2004, they ran the risk of releasing too little too late. Jakks Pacific has this market by the balls and their position would only strengthen with time and their Namco, Spider-Man, Spongebob, and Star Wars licenses. Manufacturing is a complex undertaking with a lot of lead time required.

Money -- How much of their resources did anyone honestly expect them to throw at this project? Answer: enough to make a profit, or at the least, break even. There's no way Atari would go out on a financial limb for a wacky item like this. I'm frankly amazed they cranked it out in so little time.

Scope -- We'd all like a comprehensive hardware reproduction on a keychain that runs on hydrogen. That would take money and time, and I think we all know this is a niche appeal device as it is, especially at the somewhat higher than average price on offer. See TIME and MONEY above.

[/pedantic hat off]
It seems that many of you on this thread would rather have no product at all than the Jakks or Flashback offerings. That's certainly your prerogative, and no one is making you buy the stuff. I disagree; I think they're cool little devices that are inherently fun. A vintage VCS with loose cartridges is fun too, but I've already got that, and it's in the closet since it's a mess. I still think it's amazing that this stuff is making a cultural comeback. The technical advances are sure to follow.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

I may have missed this in the thread, but how good is Saboteur on the Flashback anyways? For me that's the primmary reason I want to get a Flashback...I was also wanting it for Planet Smashers in a way since that always ends up to be too expensive on eBay for me and that's the only 7800 game on the Flashback that I don't have. :wink:

BTW- If anyone has a spare AC Adapter for the 7800 I really need one. Mine bit the dust

[else]

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If they didn't have a competing product out the gate by Xmas 2004, they ran the risk of releasing too little too late.

I'm reminded of the famous saying:

"Nobody remembers how fast you did something, everybody remembers how well you did it".

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It seems that many of you on this thread would rather have no product at all than the Jakks or Flashback offerings. That's certainly your prerogative, and no one is making you buy the stuff.

I think you're wrong. It really makes no difference to me how this thing sells or who buys it. We're just offering our opinions on Infotari's actions -- that's what this forum is for after all....

[sidcrowe]

Curt: I don't understand. Do you work for or know somebody in "Atari?"

Your info was interesting if firsthand, but still, it merely documents a failure. Like, if I have a report due and I spend the weekend getting drunk, and then I slap something together in two hours with the caveat "It's this or nothing," well...it's not true. The truth is "I decided over and over to do other things, and now this is all I have to offer." It didn't have to be that way.

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Give the Flashback a try, and give it a break,

Nah. Grames should have given quality a try, and us a break.

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Or maybe it should have been changed to have Warren's name on it, along with the name of whichever underpaid Chinese NES programmer ported the game over.

Damn! That was a good line

Just give it away to Goodwill while it's still new. Some poor person will get a nice deal

[else]

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Curt: I don't understand. Do you work for or know somebody in "Atari?"

I agree. I think we need full disclosure...

[Chickybaby]

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I agree. I think we need full disclosure...

Honestly, to me it doesn't matter who Curt works for. He has been at PC the past few years and we both have the utmost respect for him. His knowledge is quite amazing as well as his reflexes.
For all we know he could have put himself in a position compromising his employment or even a position for litigation by disclosing what he did. We should instead be grateful that someone cared enough about the community to share even that.

The main point I have read all along is that the Infogrames purposefully cut costs as much as possible, didn't even bother with quality development and threw together something "new" just so they could make the holiday rush and capitolize off of people's lack of knowledge and experience.
I have less respect for the company now then ever before, if that's possible.
The main thing I did see from Curt's post is that the programmers didn't have many choices and did the best they could with what was given. Personally, I feel sorry for them being stuck putting out lesser quality material when I am sure if given the right amount of time to work they knew it could have been stellar.

[Shaggy the Atarian]

For those who are demanding the best in quality from Atari, perhaps we should just wait and see what Atari has up their sleeves for next year. The next thing they make could be much better. The Flashback doesn't seem like a bad effort coming from a company that's never been involved in hardware development before. I know I'm in the minority here for taking that position, but I applaud Atari for at least giving it a shot. Perhaps they did it just to make a quick buck but what business doesn't do something with the intention to make some money off it? The people at Atari have to feed their families some how, they aren't running a charity there.

[Albert]

I received my Flashback unit today. Have not had a chance to play it yet, but the unit is packaged very nicely in the box. And damn, is it small! The controllers are scaled appropriately and I think they will be more comfortable to use than the 7800 controllers they are based on, but I won't know either way until I test them out. Will spend some time playing with it over the weekend.

..Al

[Flojomojo]

else said:

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Curt: I don't understand. Do you work for or know somebody in "Atari?"

I agree. I think we need full disclosure...

WTF appointed you special prosecutor? He's heavily involved in the Atari community, runs a website called the Atari History Museum (http://www.atarimuseum.com/), and doubtless served as an advisor to Atari on this project.

[sku_u]

sidcrowe said:

Your info was interesting if firsthand, but still, it merely documents a failure. Like, if I have a report due and I spend the weekend getting drunk, and then I slap something together in two hours with the caveat "It's this or nothing," well...it's not true. The truth is "I decided over and over to do other things, and now this is all I have to offer." It didn't have to be that way.

I disagree. While I think this product will not meet the expectations of Atari due to an oversaturation in the market, this product is a very good product considering the time frame and if it paves the road for future more quality releases, then it's a step forwards, not a step backwards.

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Give the Flashback a try, and give it a break,

Nah. Grames should have given quality a try, and us a break.

What's that supposed to mean? What's your gripe against Atari exactly? It seems you came over here solely to say as much negative things about Atari as possible. Are you a disgruntled homebrewer? Do you own a classic gaming store? Are you a former Atari employee who was fired by Atari? Since you're trying to call people out here, why don't you come clean and explain yourself?

[birdie3]

Well...

If they (Atari/Inforgrames) really are working on reviving the 2600/7800 hardware and producing a cartridge slotted retro Atari console in 2005 - that would be pretty neat. I won't belive it until I see it. Until then, it's just more vaporware if you ask me. Seems like it's just another load of pucky.

I haven't tried the Flashback yet. I would really prefer to get a copy of Saboteur for my six switcher. Oh, and BTW - The XE version of Desert Falcon kicks ass!!

[sidcrowe]

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Personally, I feel sorry

I feel sorry for the programmers, the graphic designers and the customers. Everybody got shafted after the executive decisions were made.

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they aren't running a charity there.

As such, I want something good for my money. I want a good product. I want to make a worthwhile "purchase," and not a "donation."

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WTF appointed you special prosecutor?

I really don't understand. I'm taking his comments at face value. This is the internet; it's largely anonymous. I was just wondering. As I take the comments at face value, my interpretation is that it is the chronicle of mismanagement. Why rush a crap product under the OFFICIAL Atari name, eroding confidence in your future proudcts? Makes no sense.

In fact, if you use the reasoning of a supersaturation of similar products, it mirrors the 84 crash......and Nintendo taking over afterwards.

So let the other products flourish. If Atari has something VERY good to offer, let them take the time to do so. It's not as if they'd collapse if they DIDN'T release this clunker.

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it's a step forwards, not a step backwards.

How can a poor effort possibly improve any situation? Of course, I say "poor." We disagree, then. You think it's good, I do not.

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What's that supposed to mean?

It means grames decided to release an unfaithful "retro" product. I don't give a "break" if it is undeserved. These games are very small and simple by today's electronic standards. They are eloquent and well designed and FUN, but they are a JOKE with today's technology. If "Atari" themselves can't manage to not screw up something of such a nature, then they should be criticized for it.

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What's your gripe against Atari exactly?

That's like asking what's my love for Atari, "exactly." Next question.

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It seems you came over here solely to say as much negative things about Atari as possible.

I came over here at the time of grames' actions against hobbyists. What's so sinister about that?

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Are you a disgruntled homebrewer? Do you own a classic gaming store? Are you a former Atari employee who was fired by Atari? Since you're trying to call people out here, why don't you come clean and explain yourself?

I'm not obliged to answer any of those questions, and neither are you to me.

I never presented any information here as if it came directly from the Flashback development team or Atari executives. I went to Curt's profile and there wasn't much there. I never told him to shut up or that he was lying. I'm taking it at face value, and just wondered what his relationship was.

My attitude is the one that wouldn't accept Bush attacking an immobilized country, crawling with inspectors. I know that's a disgression, but I don't include myself in the portion of the population which accepts things without questions

[sku_u]

sidcrowe said:

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Are you a disgruntled homebrewer? Do you own a classic gaming store? Are you a former Atari employee who was fired by Atari? Since you're trying to call people out here, why don't you come clean and explain yourself?

I'm not obliged to answer any of those questions, and neither are you to me.

I never presented any information here as if it came directly from the Flashback development team or Atari executives. I went to Curt's profile and there wasn't much there. I never told him to shut up or that he was lying. I'm taking it at face value, and just wondered what his relationship was.

Why not? I'll share with you what my dislike with Atari is if you want to hear it. I have nothing to hide. Sounds like you do.

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My attitude is the one that wouldn't accept Bush attacking an immobilized country, crawling with inspectors. I know that's a disgression, but I don't include myself in the portion of the population which accepts things without questions

WTF does that have to do with anything This is a videogame forum. If you want to go off on a tangent about politics, we have an actual forum here for that.

[sidcrowe]

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Why not? I'll share with you what my dislike with Atari is if you want to hear it. I have nothing to hide. Sounds like you do.

I'm not telling you my life's story just because I post on a hobbyist's forum. People who post as if they were a member of the executive should be asked if they are a member of the executive.

I never portrayed myself as such. I'm just curious about Curt. If he insists on being anonymous in that regard, then you take the posts with a grain of salt. I'm still taking him at his word. My interpretation of his account is not that the Flashback was a heroic move, but rather, a blunder.

As for my general feelings about Atari, I love the legacy, and feel when you thwart the spirit of a hardcore fan base while at the same time producing inferior products based upon that leagacy, you weaken both the fan base and the legacy itself.

That's "WTF" I'm alluding to.

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WTF does that have to do with anything

When someone goes off topic for a moment, they say "I digress."

[Chickybaby]

Dude, you just don't know when to quit do you?
We all agree on the fact that we have differing opinions and people are entitled to them, regardless of who they are or who they work for.

[dvdguy]

I don't get any of this. If someone is so offended that the Flashback unit isn't up to snuff, get thyself to Ebay and buy the old games. That way you get exactly what you want and don't give your "enemy" any green. Why waste even one keystroke complaining about it?

The most powerful statement you can make is with your wallet.

[sidcrowe]

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Dude, you just don't know when to quit do you? We all agree on the fact that we have differing opinions and people are entitled to them, regardless of who they are or who they work for.

I never said anything to the contrary. I'm also taking the comments as being the truth. However, when someone says that they have inside information, it doesn't hurt to wonder a little.

Maybe I'm an ex-infogramer for all you know. Maybe you are for all I know. That's the internet

Don't believe everything you read on the net

[Tempest]

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maybe I'm an ex-infogramer for all you know. Maybe you are for all I know. That's the internet

Ok exactly who are you then? I think we need full disclosure.


Tempest

[minorleagueguy]

Has anybody thought of calling/writing to this company??? Maybe if someone can get some sort of "letter" written with the complaints we have, and concerns about future products, we can all "sign" it, then send it to them.
They can't know what's wrong unless people tell them....

minorleagueguy

[NE146]

So if the Flashback is really a Famiclone.. isn't Nintendo going to sue them?

[sidcrowe]

Tempest said:

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maybe I'm an ex-infogramer for all you know. Maybe you are for all I know. That's the internet

Ok exactly who are you then? I think we need full disclosure.


Tempest

I don't know what the big whoop is. I never offered anything in the category of insider information. And, I doubt that your parents named you "Tempest."

Maybe it's time for a giant disclosure party thread where we can all offer our real names, photos, addresses and a meet-up location where we can all get together with our IDs and blood samples for verification

Failing such a procedure, you can't believe everything you read on the internet

[sku_u]

sidcrowe said:

Failing such a procedure, you can't believe everything you read on the internet  

Curt's a very reliable source and wouldn't waste his time posting hearsay or rumors when it comes to anything Atari. If you want to learn more about him or about his role in the Atari community, I suggest you take a look at his site: www.atarimuseum.com . That's as much disclosure as you need. :wink: