180 replies to this topic

[Albert]

sku_u said:

sidcrowe said:

Failing such a procedure, you can't believe everything you read on the internet  

Curt's a very reliable source and wouldn't waste his time posting hearsay or rumors when it comes to anything Atari. If you want to learn more about him or about his role in the Atari community, I suggest you take a look at his site: www.atarimuseum.com . That's as much disclosure as you need. :wink:

I just want to second this. The information Curt is providing is reliable, and it's nice that he's taken the time to post as much as he has. So you can believe this information. If you choose not to, Sidcrowe, that is fine, but let's keep this thread on target and discuss the Flashback, not your hatred for Atari and the credibility of information posted by people who have been involved in the community for many years.

..Al

[Lost Monkey]

sidcrowe said:

I don't know what the big whoop is. I never offered anything in the category of insider information. And, I doubt that your parents named you "Tempest."

Maybe it's time for a giant disclosure party thread where we can all offer our real names, photos, addresses and a meet-up location where we can all get together with our IDs and blood samples for verification    

Failing such a procedure, you can't believe everything you read on the internet  

AA, and the classic gaming community did not come into being the day you signed up here...

[Brian R.]

Well, damn. When I first heard about this, I pictured myself buying one, even though I have all the original 2600/7800 hardware and games.

But now, with the concerns about video and audio quality, I'm doubtful I'll pick this up. I saw them on a shelf at Target today (a bunch of them.) But unless I can try one out, and am somehow impressed, there's no way I'll buy it. There's other things I can spend $40 on besides this.

It's a good thing I do have the original hardware and software.

Sounds like there were shorcuts and compromises made to meet deadlines. What a damn shame.

[Tempest]

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I don't know what the big whoop is.

The big whoop is that you've done nothing be bitch and moan about how bad the flashback is, how evil Atari is, and then bitch at other people who didn't share your opinion. You've also managed to single handedly offend three long time members of this forum. All within the month you've joined. Congrats.

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And, I doubt that your parents named you "Tempest."

Perhaps they did for all you know. I don't use my real name this board because there are all kinds of freaks out there that I don't trust. Freaks such as yourself...

Quote

Maybe it's time for a giant disclosure party thread where we can all offer our real names, photos, addresses and a meet-up location where we can all get together with our IDs and blood samples for verification  
Failing such a procedure, you can't believe everything you read on the internet

Well perhaps if you'd been around here for more than a month you might know who some people are and know who to believe. As Lost Monkey pointed out, the community didnt start when you graced us with your presence. Sorry if you don't believe me or Curt, but then again I really don't care. I've wasted enough time on you.

Tempest

[Chickybaby]

Every thread Sidcrowe has made has picked fights w/ one person or another - like the one where it's only 30something yr old men on this forum so why not let them fight. Atari, Infogrames, other members no one is safe...
Err I digress for a moment.
(Remember kids:When someone goes off topic for a moment, they say "I digress.")

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And, I doubt that your parents named you "Tempest."  

...
Perhaps they did for all you know. I don't use my real name this board because there are all kinds of freaks out there that I don't trust. Freaks such as yourself

We if you really knew him you'd know why he is called The Tempest. Mrrooowwwww... Couldn't resist.:wink:

Anyway, to each their own,as far as opinions and Flashbacks go but I wouldn't be caught buying one. Maybe I will try it one day and like it, who knows. But I love these boards because there are so many different opinions, great people and a major amounts of helpful info. and so many talented people.

[Kepone]

Why don't you anti-Infogrames crybabies give Curt a break?

I am no longer anti-Infogrames. I am not pro-Infogrames either. I am going to go back to being neutral on this.

Again, you need to grow up sidcrowe. Before you trash credible members of this community, think about what they have contributed. You've no right to trash people like Curt Vendel. You or anyone else for that matter.

Build a bridge, and get over it! Infogrames is not bringing about the end of the world!

[sidcrowe]

Quote

So you can believe this information. If you choose not to, Sidcrowe, that is fine, but let's keep this thread on target and discuss the Flashback, not your hatred for Atari and the credibility of information posted by people who have been involved in the community for many years.

I never said that I didn't believe what Curt said. Quite to the contrary, I wrote that I take it at face value.

Once more, I am thankful that we cannot edit our posts. I'd rather you didn't say that I "choose not" to believe him. I just feel intimidated by the power of insider information. I do believe him; I just don't agree with the opinion that if Atari didn't do this now, then it would never do it. Who can say? It was the likelihood that he IS a reliable source that I wanted to deal with. Unless you decided to close this forum to only a small group of people who had personally met the man, then I could agree. But as long as you allow new members, I don't think I'm being rude by musing aloud as to what his relationship may be with the people who produced the Flashback.

I visited his excellent website and can't find a strong official connection. One of his articles said "...keep the name, keep the legend of Atari strong."

I, too, would like the legacy kept strong. I don't have the personal addresses of the people who made the Flashback, so talking about it here is a vent and a hope that someone may read it and improve things. I write about it because, as I said, I'd like Atari to be strong, too.

Curt offered some information on the Flashback and I just wondered how close his relationship was. I don't see the harm in that. Someone else brought up "disclosure," not me. I was only hoping for a friendly story of "I met so-and-so back then, and I knew..."

I wasn't intending to disparage the rep of someone who's been a member here much longer than myself. If some people want to treat it as if it's CIA business, then I can't change that. The console has been released, and anything said good or bad here won't affect how the general population receives it

As for my "hatred," I would categorize it as an opinion. If this were a Star Trek forum you'd find some people enjoy Kirk over Picard. I wouldn't dismiss someone with "as for your hatred of Paramount," just because they're upset with the studio for not having a movie in development. It's one thing to hate something, like a game or a movie, and offer no more than "THIS THING SUXXXX!!!!!!!!!!," but quite another to explain WHY you hate it. I've got the same old Atari stuff hanging around my house as you and all the rest here undoubtedly do; I don't hate Atari. I'm displeased as to what its stewards are doing with the brand.

I wanted to like the Flashback. If it offered authentic content, I would have bought it myself

Regardless of my opinion/"hatred" for the product, it is still a good deal in a nice package. The content is just not genuine, and that's a fact. I don't need to be able to point to a website of my own for any number of years to be able to validate that fact. Modern games provide CD sound and photo-realism. Thus, the authenticity of the old Atari games is very important if you truly care for the artists who made them. Technically speaking, the games on the Flashback offer very little, so to have what little they offer compromised is something to feel upset about. What better place to talk about it than here?

I hope that a member here is allowed to both keep and express an opinion, whether it is enthusiastic (I am awaiting reviews for the PS2 Atari Anthology, which seems like a great product) or critical. After all, every year Ebert and Roeper have a "worst of the year" episode, and making a point of properly condemning an inferior product or movie is as important as praising a superior one.

I know my original avatar, featuring Johhny Cash giving Infogrames the bird, may have seemed a little too high-spirited at first, but that's when I joined–when that topic was the hottest, and I'm not the only one here with a similar opinion. Maybe I'm a little more well-spoken and people get angrier at me because of it. I just don't know

My apologies to Curt for anything that may be interpreted as being untoward. I say "interpreted," for my comments stand unedited, and I never once called him a liar. I just wanted to know a bit more history :wink:

As for the other criticisms, I just found another subliminal Atari ad which I think you'll all find to be entertaining, which I'll post elsewhere...I'm here for some fun, too

[Atari Charles]

I haven't tried the Flashback unit, so I cannot comment on whether or not it is accurate at reproducing those Atari 2600 titles.

I do know that it is very very easy for software and hardware pirates in China and elsewhere to faithfully reproduce a product so well that only an expert would know the difference. So if Infogrames cannot do this, then my question is why?

The price isn't bad and the packaging and the unit itself looks fine, but the guts and the emulation is what we are mostly talking about here.

I have heard that the Atari Joystick with the games built in(different unit) has their respective games Easter Eggs removed. I wonder if this is the case with the Flashback unit. Does anyone know?

To me, the Flashback unit will be purchased by old school and new school gaming fans alike. I see no need whatsoever to buy the unit at full price as I can play these games on my Atari 2600. And even if I didn't have an Atari 2600, I'd more than likely play the games on my computer using actual ROMS with the real information intact.

I'm pretty nuetral on the whole Infogrames topic. I am glad Atari is ressurrected, but not overly excited about the form it has taken.

Sure, I'll buy a Flashback Unit(I haven't come across one yet), but I'll wait until the stores blow them out(which may or may not happen) as I would buy one for curiousities sake more than as a hard core part of my limited Atari collection.

Perhaps Info-Atari will learn from their mistakes and become a great company. On the other hand, they may continue alienating the gaming community and eventually fall into oblivion.

*There are a lot of talented people in this forum. Perhaps Info-Atari should fire their current staff and hire some software and hardware designers from the Atari Age forums. Then, I think we'd see some great systems and games come out.

Info-Atari is now in the U.S., so why don't some of you apply or and submit your ideas and projects(copyright them first). Maybe you can change things from the inside and get a cool job at the same time.

[SteveW]

Actually, the price is bad for a product like this. The machine isn't worth $45. It's using cheap NES-on-a-chip technology, the same as all those Konami and Namco collections. Those are only around $20. Just because they put in 20 games instead of 5 like the Namco ones doesn't mean it should cost $25 more. I can't imagine having a larger ROM full of games costs that much. Hell, the Intellivision 25-in-1 has more games, it has games ported to the NES-on-a-chip technology like the Flashback, but costs a lot less.

[Kepone]

I saw an INTV 25 in 1 unit at a goodwill but I passed it up. They wanted $10 for it.

I have no interest in these retro systems but I do recognize that there are people who are too lazy or incompetent to use the real thing.

[SteveW]

Unfortunately, the lazy and incompetent are pretty much the Flashback's target demographic.

I've already got all the games on the Flashback (except for Saboteur and Crystal Castles), so I didn't need to buy the thing. I just wanted it. I wanted it to be good. And like every one else here has stated, it's a little disappointing. I'll play it about as much as I play the Intellivision 25-in-1, which is almost never. I have all the games from the INTV one, too.

[Mindfield]

Jeez. Atari rushes hardware to market just to meet a Christmas deadline, only to have a part of their target demographic find that it's thoroughly flawed. Then they say they're going to do something "authentic" next year.

Isn't this the same sort of confidence breaker that so marred the Atari name back in the mid-80s with all the premature announcements that eventually became vapourware? Well hell. Maybe there's some real Atari at Infogrames after all. :-)

Okay, no, that's just cruel to compare Atari of old to Infogrames. But that did cross my mind. Mostly, though, I think Infogrames have already soured many people with the Flashback unit -- that whole "first impressions" thing will probably bite them on the ass if indeed they do go back and redo it properly.

[sidcrowe]

Quote

Actually, the price is bad for a product like this. The machine isn't worth $45. It's using cheap NES-on-a-chip technology, the same as all those Konami and Namco collections. Those are only around $20.

I don't think it's worth that, either, but at least you get two crummy freestanding sticks and you can plug it in

Saves something on batteries...

(can't think of anything else good to say )

[ussexplorer]

I would be interested in knowning the outcome for the holiday season on each retro unit. This $40.00 flash back unit should be interesteing compaired to other units lowering in price to around $15.00. I sortof hope they all have a good year in sales with these tiny consoles to encourage a bigger selection next year. I do admit some of the items I see now is really starting to turn me off. My wife asked me what one I wanted for christmas and I didn't even pick anything really atari. I loved the Activision and really loved the namco joystick. If I had the money I would defently purchase one of each. To be really honest. I'm still looking for one of those 128 in 1 nes clones that looked like a ps1. Once again put on the back burner do to money. Plus that is a little off topic.

One more thing: Thank goodness we have one finally with a power supply.

Later,

ussexplorer

[sku_u]

ussexplorer said:

I would be interested in knowning the outcome for the holiday season on each retro unit. This $40.00 flash back unit should be interesteing compaired to other units lowering in price to around $15.00.

Here's what I don't get at all and hopefully someone in the know can fill me in on this:

1. Target has this thing listed for $39.99, Best Buy for $49.99 and Gamestop for 44.99. Which of those prices is the actual MSRP?

2. Target claims they will be getting in a second shipment on November 30th, Best Buy Claims tomorrow and Gamestop claims January. Which is it? I thought the initial run was gone already and that was it for this unit.

3. Someone mentioned that Walmart is also carrying this unit, but their site makes no mention of it and the 3 Walmarts by me's heads of videogames have never heard of this unit.

I went to several Targets, Best Buys Walmarts and Gamestops to compile that info and each time taked to the manager. I hope someone can shed some light on this so we can all get the actual facts rather than more hearsay.

[Beer Monkey]

Quote

Unfortunately, the lazy and incompetent are pretty much the Flashback's target demographic.

Those in the mainstream who have only a casual interest in vintage games aren't necessarily lazy or incompetent, they just don't have the same hobby as us.

[Flojomojo]

Beer Monkey said:

Quote

Unfortunately, the lazy and incompetent are pretty much the Flashback's target demographic.

Those in the mainstream who have only a casual interest in vintage games aren't necessarily lazy or incompetent, they just don't have the same hobby as us.

Nor do they have a lot of interest in hooking up RF-video to higher-end devices. :wink:

[Atari-Jess]

I got tired of reading a lot of the posts in this thread because they were
just god-awful disgusting rants that every time amounted to nothing.

My rant on the other hand is informative and entertaining.

Now, I have my "good idea" and "bad idea" lists about this flashback unit.
And here she goes:

Good idea:
It's tiny!
Comes with a shirt!
20 games!

Bad idea:
No cart port
NES on a chip....!
rushed...

Okay, but that really doesn't cover my opinion of this machine.

Firstly, Sure, Atari wanted something for the christmas season.
From what I'm understanding from Curt, if the guys who worked on this
didn't have something for Atari in time, they could forget having anything
at all for next year. (correct me if I'm wrong here Curt)

Its an amazing feat for the period of time it took for these guys to get it
from concept to packaging and its certainly a cute little unit, and the nice
shirt makes you want it bad.

But, It was still pretty greedy of Atari to want something so badly that
they would accept an admittedly subpar product (mind you I mean
subpar as in its not what "we" wanted, not that the unit itself is poor)

I have faith for next years Christmas season assuming these guys can
get their "real" atari out the door for us.

So yeah, some stuff is teh sux, and some stuff is teh gr8.

I rate it a 6 out of 10?

5 for effort and 1 for the shirt.

The loss of points aren't really their fault. (the designers) but it is the fault
of Atarigrames.

But they are,

-1 point for being rushed <-not designers fault

-1 point for using painline controllers <-designers fault, I have small hands, it made little difference to me.

-1 point for being stuck with a NES on a chip <-not designers fault

-1 point for no cart port <-not really designers fault, they were rushed.


"Ho-kay, rant ovar."

[Great Hierophant]

Many people here have identified the target market, the average consumer. This consumer threw out, sold or traded his or her Atari stuff at least a decade ago, if not two. He is either buying this for himself for a little retro-action or for his younger children (20 games @ $40 is cheaper than 1 game @ $50.) He wouldn't remember exactly what an Atari looked, sounded or played like and neither would his children. He hasn't played an Atari in 20 years, never used an emulator (good or bad), and wouldn't make much of a distinction between what he would consider crappy graphics. If the games played poorly, he would assume that they played that way back in the day because of the more primitive technology.

Now, if you were an Atari executive examining proposals for a product to tap into a market made up of people like these, would you give a damn that Desert Falcon isn't an accurate representation? If you did, you wouldn't be an Atari executive. What would would care about is the timing and price points. It would cost a great deal more to fabricate a custom chip than to use already existing technology. It cannot be done in time for the Christmas season. Video Game companies live for (and die by) the Christmas season. According to the latest news, Atari isn't doing so well financially. Besides, how would accurate emulation improve sales? Only a tiny minority knows or cares enough to base a buying decision on the accuracy of the emulation.

Atari spent months studying the market to determine whether this product was feasible. Decision to go on a product that is not a sure thing (sequels to hot games) are not made quickly in the corporate decision making process. Some people have remarked that the demand for retro games is at its peak, which is not the best time to enter a market. Whether the decision was a good one or not will be decided entirely mostly by the sales figures. Maybe if this product is a success then a second product (with other games) might use the 7800-on-a-chip technology instead of the NES-on-a-chip technology that they are currently using, but I doubt it.

The bottom line is if you find emulating Atari 2600 and 7800 games by NES-on-a-chip hardware and with inconsistent quality at $40 not worth it, then don't buy it and inform those who would care but are still ignorant.

[ATARIeric]

well i couldnt find "the flashback thread that isnt a pee pe" i believe someone asked if a mini-itx would fit, i dont know the size of flashback, but my itx measusers, 6 3/4 X 6 3/4 X 2

[Curt Vendel]

I heard rumor that Sunmark.com has been working on a micro-2600 board, I wonder if it would fit inside a Flashback case?


Mark???



Curt

[ATARIeric]

Curt Vendel said:

I heard rumor that Sunmark.com has been working on a micro-2600 board, I wonder if it would fit inside a Flashback case?


Mark???  



Curt

wow, that would be cool! i have seen the mini-itx nano computer, its about the same size as a pack of cigs. if i can find the picture, i will send it to you.

[Super-Genius!]

[ATARIeric]

now theres another toy for me to keep my eyes on

[Lost Monkey]