180 replies to this topic

[Flojomojo]

There's so much hatred of Infogrames, the 'new' Atari, and most ridiculously ... even the French in these threads. Remember that many of the home games so revered on these boards were themselves pale imitations of the original arcade games they were simulating. The spirit of the old games is in these re-creations. I for one don't really care if the modern imitation of the old imitation of the original Battlezone is pixel-perfect, so long as it's still an entertaining game. My experience with the joystick games on the Jakks sticks was positive, and I expect the Flashback to be similarly fun in a retro-flavored way.

Those of you with 7800 hardware can enjoy the old stuff. Those of us who no longer have that machine can have a taste of a different recipie of the same dish ...and can always go back via emulation, too. I prefer to get this product and send the message that there *is* a market for this style of game. Plus I'll get a T-shirt and a nice solid dedicated machine that plays 7800 Asteroids, Food Fight, and Solaris.

Push out the jive
Bring in the love.

[Cousin Vinnie]

Well, at least they throw in a CD. I hope I don't get a hip-hop one.

Cousin Vinnie

[Feralstorm]

AH poo. I was hoping for something hackable, or at least "real" Atari games without having to deal with an RF adaptor.

I'll probably still grab one, but it's slid down a few notches on the priority-meter.

[Justin42]

(this is probably dangerous, I'm really tired and haven't proofed this part as much as the last one [what? he proofed that? ] so hopefully nothing really bad slipped through!)

Part 2:
Gravitar:
Uhm, never played this one much either, except the arcade version via MAME. This game seems pretty decent. It feels a lot like a 2600 game, although the manual leaves me a bit confused as to what exactly I’m supposed to be doing. Collision detection is a bit spotty (Which can either be good, when a shot goes right through you, or bad, when a shot nowhere near you destroys your ship). Actually does a good job looking and sounding like a 2600 game. Not sure how many people who buy the unit without knowing about this game will spend time with it.

Haunted House:
Ok, so my knowledge of early 2600 games is slim to none. I was barely 4 when this system came out! That said, this seems like an OK translation, although the flicker is kind of strange (when you light a match you look like a butterfly with flapping wings, or a hot dog with wings. . Can’t say much else, I’m not sure what I am comparing it to.

Millipede (2600):
The obvious thing is to mention how confusing this is going to be for some people – why does Centipede look 10 times better than it’s sequel? (Cause they used the 2600 for Millipede) Very good job with this one, though. Beyond the expected slight sound/graphics differences (and they’re pretty slight – are there supposed to be marching feet sound to the Millipede?), it’s a good version of the game. It feels a bit different, smoother than the original. Like Food Fight, that may actually make this version better than the original game.

Planet Smashers:
Ok, I must admit I am lucky enough to have this game for the 7800 (even before the Cuttle Cart 2). That said, I don’t know if I’ve played it more than once or twice! I think my first impressions when I got it was something along the lines of “All that hype and searching for this?”, basically that it was pretty generic. I tend to avoid the later Atari 7800 games like the plague, they never really seemed all that fun. It actually sounds the most TIA-like of any of the games here. I do remember in the original that the text at the bottom of the screen is really hard to read on a real 7800/TV so it’s nice to have a composite signal here to read the gauges and all that. It seems better than I remember, I’ll have to give it the chance again on the real 7800.

Saboteur:
As a prototype, it’s kind of hard to know how to think of this one. The graphics seem pretty close to the original, although the rocket ship at the beginning is a little bit off (extra dithering). Otherwise, it does seem to play pretty close. Graphics are good, sound is really close.

Skydiver:
Another simple game on the system. Not much to report, other than it’s there and it works fine!

Solaris:
This kind of surprised me, I really expected it to be botched since it’s one of the more complicated games on the 2600. However, they’ve done a really good job with it. The graphics look pretty close to the original (with some dithering to replace all of the shading on the 2600). It seems to control pretty tight as well. Sound is close, though not perfect. And I was wrong, Pause DOES work, just not every time. You may need to hit Pause a couple of times before it catches (hard to describe, it seems like the system gets busy doing the game and ignores Pause. Not ALL of the time, but moreso than any of the other games).

Sprintmaster:
I don’t think I’ve ever played this one before either. I looked at the manual online to see if it used the driving controllers, but it doesn’t sound like it did. Too bad, as it seems VERY hard to control and I don’t know if it’s just the Flashback controllers or the game itself. It’s one I wish was better, as it seems like a good start to a game, but it just doesn’t all come together right. Graphics and sound seem pretty well emulated, nothing drastic seems wrong (I.e., major dithering, sounds all goofy, etc).

Warlords:
Another surprise. Given the lack of analog controls, I wasn’t sure how well this would play, but it’s really surprisingly good. It looks about perfect, and sounds are pretty dead on. It’s like Breakout– it’s not a perfect substitute for paddles, but it really isn’t too bad. The ball is really dark, I can barely see it when the Flashback is connected via my ATI All in Wonder card. I’m not sure if it’s quite like that on a normal TV. Haven’t tried 2 player. Good job overall with this one.

Yar’s Revenge:
I never entirely got the appeal of this game. I know that’s nearly blasphemy to admit, but I remember getting this, sitting down expecting hours of classic gaming goodness, and thinking “Huh? That’s it? Wha..?” So maybe I’m not the right person to ask about this. But it does seem like a decent translation, the graphics are a bit different but I’ve been told they’re much better than the Jakks Yar’s – the neutral zone moves/flickers like it does in the original. It’s a bit dithery, but it looks right. The sounds of the cannon and shots are a bit wrong, but most of the others are pretty good. Gameplay seems to be intact, which is what’s important for this one.

So, that’s about it. It’s not a bad system by any means. I really think a lot of us expected a bit more, and maybe that was wishful thinking. I know as I was driving home I was thinking “oh, I hope there’s a way to hack a cartridge slot, I hope this will eventually work with a Cuttle Cart.” That will never happen, since it’s not a 7800, but the important thing is that most – but definitely not all – of the games are either “good enough”, or different enough, that it’s a fun console to have. I wish more time had been spent polishing what they had, though, because it only tarnishes the value of the licenses that Atari (Infogrames) is attempting to milk by releasing bad/iffy versions of the games. They really need to be seen in all their glory, not their “almost, not bad, but not entirely correct” glory.

I’m sure many people will get this for the holidays (as a gift, or giving to someone else) and most people will enjoy it. The most hardcore will go crazy with some of the flaws, especially the blindingly noticeable problems (Desert Falcon), but the major of people just wanting some old Atari games will probably have fun. But note to Infogrames – you did so many things right, from the addition of 7800 games and protos to a really nice design and packaging, would it really have killed you to go the little extra steps and take the time to take it from around 70-80% to 90%+?

[sidcrowe]

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The spirit of the old games is in these re-creations.

I don't mean to be a dick, but maybe I could interest you in some re-recordings of the Beatles as done by the Chipmunks and Muzak™.

If you enjoy it, then it's a success for you. It's not a new car, after all

But for me, the whole thing is THE GAMES, just as they were. Ideally, I'd like the 2600 to be on store shelves and we could have a new games every month or so for 30 bucks, but all we've got are the classic era and the cool people who make homebrews. Anything extra, like these things, should be just 2 things:

1. A small and nifty package at a low price (since it's old tech and not going to be supported with new media)

2. Be faithful

That's it. That's all. There is no excuse for these games not being perfect, or at least damn near perfect. I got Defender and Asteroids and Robotron (to name a few) on PSONE discs, and they all perform perfect.

NO EXCUSE. These things are failures because the manufacturers don't care about the legacy or the hardcore consumers. They are a cheap "retro" GIMMICK. It's really too bad

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[Atariboy2600]

I got the unit in NYC and all I have to say is wow...... and not wow as "this is great" but wow as "OMFG they F it up again!" I mean COME ON, in the real world if some one release a new classic Beatles or a Johnny Cash album and then it's not sound right or worst not even the right singer at all then you'll have a UPROWR pepole would want there money back and some will lose there jobs right??! Will this is no diffent if you going to realease a "real" classic games then you got to put your 110% on it and no buts about it! Make a real unit that plays REAL ROMS! I mean look at ALLL thouse Famiclones units that came out and they got REAL ROMS in them. If some kid in a back alley of Hong Kong, China or what ever makes a $1.15 a day making aa NES clone unit with real rom games and then ship them out every where and playes like the real thing then I don't see how a HUGE company like "Atari" with all the money in there pocket could make this peace of crap and things we won't noteist the BS spilling out from the TV. If anyone wanted to play Atari 2600 but don't want to pay for the real consle then go get the Atari 80 in one Classic CD for the PC, PS2 or Xbox and injoy. As for me Ilm going to put this next to the museum of "How Could They F&$% It" systems as a reminder to all who are thinking of getting it but don't know if they got it right. Well play thsi and tell me what you think

[Chickybaby]

Well, after reading this thread and the reviews all I can say is that I am definitely saddened to see how this turned out. I still tried to keep an open mind regardless and still was let down. Wouldn't it be nice for a change if something didn't live down to our low expectations.
Maybe, just maybe if it goes on clearance for 15$ I'd pick one up but definitely not for 40.
For about 50+(per Epay) looks like you can get a 7800 and not one of those. I would rather spend the extra money and have something that can play hundreds of games vs a few built in ones.
Sheesh, I mean look how small it is - It more reminds me of those 10-20$ controllers with built in games than supposedly a system. From what I had read/heard I thought that that's what it was supposed to be like - a comparison to a 7800.
I also agree that the games shouldn't have so many errors. Anyone who bouught it and is that dissapointed I would definitely return it as well as call the company and complain - heck any classic gamer that is dissapointed should call but make sure you stress how much you wanted something authentic.

[Chickybaby]

Just switched to looking at 2600 system BINS on E-pay and there are quite a few as low as 30-39$ that come with games. To me that's more worth the money.

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

Agent X said:

Heck, as an Atari 7800 fan, I'd find it insulting that they'd use "NES-on-a-chip" in a product that is purported to be based on the Atari 7800...that would be analagous to the makers of the Commodore 64 Direct-to-TV unit using the Atari 800 chipset.

This is not true. I have first hand knowledge that the C64 DTV unit works with a complete C64-on-a-chip, including a SID and a VIC. The device is running the _original_ C64 Software, it has only been tweaked in things like running the Games from ROM rather than diskette.

Greetings,
Manuel

[Flojomojo]

sidcrowe said:

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The spirit of the old games is in these re-creations.

I don't mean to be a dick, but maybe I could interest you in some re-recordings of the Beatles as done by the Chipmunks and Muzak™.

Heh heh heh. I'd say the analogy is more like getting a Rick Springfield album as recorded by your local bar band on 80's night. These VCS and 7800 games were never that hot to begin with, so seeing them reinterpreted doesn't irk me as much as perhaps it should.

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If you enjoy it, then it's a success for you. It's not a new car, after all

Maybe that's why.

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That's it. That's all. There is no excuse for these games not being perfect, or at least damn near perfect. I got Defender and Asteroids and Robotron (to name a few) on PSONE discs, and they all perform perfect.

Because they are emulated on a (relatively) very powerful system, not a cheap one-off set of simulations. I'm no hardware or emulation expert, but I did notice that it took a very long time for an accurate 2600 emulator to surface. If it were easy to reproduce the 2600's peculiar quirks on a cheap system, I believe it would have been done by now. Until then, we've always got the computer emulators, the Supercharger, the Cuttle Cart, homebrew carts, thrift store "vintage" items, and other alternatives.

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NO EXCUSE. These things are failures because the manufacturers don't care about the legacy or the hardcore consumers. They are a cheap "retro" GIMMICK. It's really too bad    

I don't mean to be a dick either, but don't you think this has always been the case, from the original days of the VCS, through the 5200 and 7800, all the way to the Jaguar?

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Sheesh, I mean look how small it is - It more reminds me of those 10-20$ controllers with built in games than supposedly a system. From what I had read/heard I thought that that's what it was supposed to be like - a comparison to a 7800.  

Where did you get that idea? It's always been pitched as an embedded system -- that's why some people are so pissed about the price. I can see where they got it, since 10 games on the Jakks stick is $25, so why not charge $45 for twice as many, including an extra stick?

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Just switched to looking at 2600 system BINS on E-pay and there are quite a few as low as 30-39$ that come with games. To me that's more worth the money.

I'd just as soon not bother with a flaky old system with poor RF output and proprietary AC input. I have a big 2600 collection but never take it out since the old hardware is just a PITA to deal with.

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Make a real unit that plays REAL ROMS! I mean look at ALLL thouse Famiclones units that came out and they got REAL ROMS in them. If some kid in a back alley of Hong Kong, China or what ever makes a $1.15 a day making aa NES clone unit with real rom games and then ship them out every where and playes like the real thing then I don't see how a HUGE company like "Atari" with all the money in there pocket could make this peace of crap and things we won't noteist the BS spilling out from the TV.

I still believe that if it were easy to do, then it would have been done right. Those Famiclone systems are running essentially the same hardware as the NES since that machine was popular enough to have been reverse-engineered millions of times over by pirates. It's a much more standard, less quirky setup than anything Atari ever did.

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If anyone wanted to play Atari 2600 but don't want to pay for the real consle then go get the Atari 80 in one Classic CD for the PC, PS2 or Xbox and injoy.

But the point of the Flashback is that everything is included and ready to go, no?

I don't know why I feel the compulsion to defend this toy. Yeah, I know some people are pissed that it wasn't perfect on the first try, or perceive nothing but a cashing in. Or they're pissed that Atari is going after their legitimately owned copyrights. I guess I think it's pretty cool, even if it's not 100% there...plus I'd hate to give Atari the excuse that "there's no demand for the old games" and give up trying altogether.

Sidcrowe, your VCS-style box is funny. Not completely accurate to the original style, but still good. Like the Flashback.

[Chickybaby]

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Where did you get that idea? It's always been pitched as an embedded system -- that's why some people are so pissed about the price. I can see where they got it, since 10 games on the Jakks stick is $25, so why not charge $45 for twice as many, including an extra stick

If you go to one Mark's that I know of around Parma they have the Intellivision and a couple other ones for only 8$ each. I know Wal-not also has quite a few under 20$.

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I'd just as soon not bother with a flaky old system with poor RF output and proprietary AC input. I have a big 2600 collection but never take it out since the old hardware is just a PITA to deal with.

We have a few 2600, 2600 Jrs as well as 7800 and a 5200 - most of which came from yard sales and thrift finds or AA members. Never had too many problems w/ them.We also have all ages of TV's from 15+ yrs old to last year and they work fine. I've actually been very very pleasantly surprised considering the age. If you take care of your things, don't beat the shit out of them- I don't see why they would be such a pain or cause so many problems.
As far as set-ups go we have a few selectors that take S-video, AV & Rf that you can hook 5 systems up to, so there isn't a mess or a big pain when switching systems.

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Because they are emulated on a (relatively) very powerful system, not a cheap one-off set of simulations. I'm no hardware or emulation expert, but I did notice that it took a very long time for an accurate 2600 emulator to surface.

With the big name and money that Infogrames has I am sure they could have found something especially considering the slew of inexpensive plug in games that are out there.

In all seriousness, If you don't want your 2600, 5200 or 7800 cart collection because it's such a pain please PM me a list of your games & a shipping cost via either UPS or Priority Mail and we will be happy to give them a good home where they will be greatly enjoyed and appreciated - we can always use more real games!!!

[Chickybaby]

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Those of you with 7800 hardware can enjoy the old stuff. Those of us who no longer have that machine can have a taste of a different recipie of the same dish

I am sure even that if you wanted real games that someone on AA would set you up with a good system that you wouldn't/shouldn't have problems with. There are quite a few people especially CPUWIZ that are great w/ that stuff!!!

As far as giving games for 2600,5200,7800 a good home that offer is extended to everybody that has more then just dime a dozen combat/pac man/ET/donkey kong & jr. etc... carts. Heck we'll take coleco & Intellivision games too. Even Genesis games, heck yeah - send em here (cept those pesky sports titles)

[Cootster]

I was hoping this thing would actually be halfway decent, and actually use real hardware . . . I guess the old Famiclone board is standard now for all retro-gaming products . . .

But I do have a question about the controllers . . . I know it says that real 2600/7800 sticks don't work on this abomination, but do those smooth-but-tiny controllers work on the 2600/7800? They'll be all over thrift stores and dumps in January, after all . . . Be nice to know if they have a use.

[Lord Helmet]

Disappointed, but not surprised.

[sku_u]

I saw this at a local store yesterday. They had a nice display set up with a system out for demoing. Not far away from that was a huge Halo2 display. Guess which one all the kids were checking out :wink:

I honestly think the plug and play market is already oversaturated as it is. Putting out something like this when there are already a bunch of other cheaper ones to choose from wasn't a good idea.

As for the system itself, I didn't think it was possible to make the controllers worse then the originals, but Infogrames definitely succeeded in that regard. Even 5200, Inty and Colecovision controllers are good next to these.

To each their own I guess. If someone who knows they can get the real thing for less chooses to limit what they can play and how well it plays, that's up to them. Something tells me these will be in the bargain bins right next to the 1 player Jakks paddle packs come January.

[sku_u]

BTW, I think the one positive that's come out of this so far is that Ebay's game prices haven't gone up like they had around the Christmas season in previous years. I've been getting some real bargains lately. WOOHOOO!!!

[Bruce Tomlin]

Justin42 said:

They're standard 9 pin jacks but it warns in the manual not to use ANY "legacy" Atari hardware on it. Since the Pause/Reset buttons are on the controllers they might have tweaked the pinouts a bit. There's no paddles, unfortunately.

If they used Famiclone hardware, it is entirely possible that the controls are serialized like NES/SNES contrllers. It would be amusing if they used the same pinout as the Power Joy.

Flojomojo said:

Because they are emulated on a (relatively) very powerful system, not a cheap one-off set of simulations.  I'm no hardware or emulation expert, but I did notice that it took a very long time for an accurate 2600 emulator to surface.  If it were easy to reproduce the 2600's peculiar quirks on a cheap system, I believe it would have been done by now.

Except it HAS been done. The TIA blueprints have been public for a few years now. At least one or two people have worked on VHDL implementations for gate array chips, only to "go black" after getting money flashed in their face from someone wanting to turn it into a real product. The Maria blueprints are available for the use of Atarigrames (those who have them are reasonably holding them back at Atarigrames' request), and could be added to the VHDL with a reasonable amount of extra work. Plus, the Maria has very few quirks and could be generated as cleanroom VHDL.

Having heard the early reports, I don't think I'll be getting one. It's just like buying a "Greatest Hits" CD and finding out that every song is done by a cover band.

[sidcrowe]

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Sidcrowe, your VCS-style box is funny. Not completely accurate to the original style, but still good.

It's an old Asteroids box scan I got from here. The Mumbo font I got from here. I think it's as perfect as can be

Glad you like it :wink:

At least you like the Flashback

[Rob Mitchell]

I dropped by Target here in Atlanta, GA. No Flashback units to be seen. But they do have a sale on the PacMan, Ms. PacMan, and Spongebob units ($15.88 each.) Also there is another Spongebob 7 games in one (Jakks Pacific) for small children ($14.98).

Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA

[Albert]

sku_u said:

I honestly think the plug and play market is already oversaturated as it is.  Putting out something like this when there are already a bunch of other cheaper ones to choose from wasn't a good idea.

I agree about the market being a bit saturated with all these retro units. I don't remember what store I was in (probably a Target) but they had what must have been 10 feet of floor space dedicated top to bottom with these units, in all shapes and sizes from several different manufacturers. I think what's going to happen is that these will collectively not sell as well as they need to to keep all these companies happy, and that next year there will be a downsizing of sorts.

Of course, I could be wrong and these items may sell like hotcakes this holiday season, which means we'd see even more of them next year.

..Al

[Agent X]

Cybergoth said:

Hi there!

Agent X said:

Heck, as an Atari 7800 fan, I'd find it insulting that they'd use "NES-on-a-chip" in a product that is purported to be based on the Atari 7800...that would be analagous to the makers of the Commodore 64 Direct-to-TV unit using the Atari 800 chipset.

This is not true. I have first hand knowledge that the C64 DTV unit works with a complete C64-on-a-chip, including a SID and a VIC. The device is running the _original_ C64 Software, it has only been tweaked in things like running the Games from ROM rather than diskette.

Greetings,
Manuel

Oops, I think you misunderstood what I said! (Or maybe I wasn't clear enough.)

I meant it as an analogy, that this would be similar to an imaginary situation where the designers of the C64DTV might've used a chipset based on a different platform (like the Atari 800). I didn't intend for it to sound like the C64DTV designers were actually doing such a thing. In fact, I wrote yesterday in this thread (elsewhere on this forum) something very similar to what you just said, how the C64DTV designers went through meticulous detail in their efforts. So, I think we're really on the same page here.

[Agent X]

Albert said:

sku_u said:

I honestly think the plug and play market is already oversaturated as it is.  Putting out something like this when there are already a bunch of other cheaper ones to choose from wasn't a good idea.

I agree about the market being a bit saturated with all these retro units. I don't remember what store I was in (probably a Target) but they had what must have been 10 feet of floor space dedicated top to bottom with these units, in all shapes and sizes from several different manufacturers. I think what's going to happen is that these will collectively not sell as well as they need to to keep all these companies happy, and that next year there will be a downsizing of sorts.

Of course, I could be wrong and these items may sell like hotcakes this holiday season, which means we'd see even more of them next year.

..Al

I view these machines as the modern equivalents of the self-contained video game systems from the early to mid 1970's (the ones that played mostly Pong variations), but with much more variety. My prediction is that like those 1970's machines, this "new generation" will probably thrive for 2-3 more years. After that, they'll subside in popularity due to oversaturation and the fact that many of these games are available in compilation packs for the popular video game systems and computers. A handful of the most popular models might survive longer on the market (perhaps with the release of improved models that add more games and/or multiplayer options), but the less popular ones will disappear with little to no fanfare.

[Justin42]

I think the Pong-machine analogy is great. It really goes to show you, everything old is new again, in more ways than one!

I've been messing around more with the Flashback tonight. I'm starting to kinda like it more. Not as a 7800 replacement, but it really isn't bad. If you just sit down with it, without being critical, many of the games really are just as much fun as they were originally. They're not exact, and there are occasionally weird flaws (The collision detection in a lot of games is a little off). But you know, these systems aren't marketed towards us -- I'm sure no one at AtariGrames sat there and said "Gee, how can we sell this device to people with 5 2600's, 2 7800's, and a collection of 600+ games?"

It's a lot easier to drag a Flashback around than a 7800 with 20 carts. Now if you throw a Cuttle Cart 2 in the mix... that's a different story.

So it ain't perfect, but it's fun, and if you're not being hyper critical, it's actually kind neat. I wish it was $29.99 instead of $39.99 but I can see why they chose the price point.

Here's a family portrait. (Please ignore the fact my 7800 looks like it came from a grungy old flea market -- it came from a grungy old flea market. I bought it from someone who got it from the flea market for $10. Yeah, the silver is bruised, and the Power switch has never worked right (it usually takes 2-3 presses to register), but it's mine, dammit!

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[Room 34]

Gregory DG said:

But what does InfoAtari care? They'll make their bucks and lock out the homebrewers from writing games for the true systems.  

Right... the point of these things is not to accurately recreate the classics with the obsessive detail that people like us can appreciate. It's to cash in on what they see as a retro fad.

Repeat that: Their goal is simply to cash in.

What's the best way to cash in? To design and manufacture your product as cheaply as possible, and saturate the market with it at Christmas time. That's all that matters, and that's all we're going to get.

I know these things are enticing... but I don't know why. I've got several 2600 consoles and over 200 games at home (not to mention the other systems!), and yet for some reason I'm still drawn to them (even though all I ever really play these days is the GameCube). When I see the "ten bazillion classic games in a box" gizmos at mall kiosks, I still do a double take. There's just something about seeing Super Mario Bros. or Pac-Man on a huge TV screen (how do they fit TVs that big into those tiny kiosks, anyway?) that gets me every time.

But I'll never waste a dime on this crap when I already have the real thing, because I know they are never going to put the kind of anal-retentive OCD attention to detail into it that I want and expect.

I'm not saying that to disparage those of you who do buy them. I'm just saying... think about it before you buy, and keep your expectations in check.

[sidcrowe]

Nifty picture.

Thing is, WHY? WHY can't they make a proper product? The original games were fun. Otherwise, this would be another super hi-res dvd game system.

Thanks again grames. We're looking forward to what you're doing with the Atari legacy. It's certainly in good hands

Of all the people and projects in the world, we're sooooooooo glad you're the ones managing these projects

Grrrrrrreat job