180 replies to this topic

[sidcrowe]

[quote="Room 34"][quote=Gregory DG]Repeat that: Their goal is simply to cash in.[/quote]

Totally. It's like, if I acquired a company which made classic hockey sticks of famous pros, I might throw some crap together and throw it out the door to cash in on famous names...because I don't care.

If I cared, I wouldn't do that.

The people who own the Atari name DO NOT care. Game Over.

They can still turn a buck, as people dimly remember these games and might buy them as pop culture curiosities, but the product does a disservice to the hardcore fans like us, the people who made these great games, and the consumers themselves, as they are getting sloppy impersonations of these games, and not the genuine articles.

Why aren't they genuine? Grames doesn't care. Why bother? Why bother spending another 10 grand and 2 months doing it right, for a product that ISN'T THAT DAMN COMPLICATED TO DO PROPERLY?

Infogrames has all the appreciation, love and respect for Atari that I have for a stale box of donuts, which is sweet fuck-all. They just proved it

[Cybergoth]

Hi there!

Agent X said:

I meant it as an analogy, that this would be similar to an imaginary situation where the designers of the C64DTV might've used a chipset based on a different platform (like the Atari 800). I didn't intend for it to sound like the C64DTV designers were actually doing such a thing. In fact, I wrote yesterday in this thread (elsewhere on this forum) something very similar to what you just said, how the C64DTV designers went through meticulous detail in their efforts. So, I think we're really on the same page here.

I see, sorry I didn't get you there

Yeah, I hope to get a C64 DTV soon. I certainly can't resist a thing with more than 10 Epyx games + Paradroid on it

Greetings,
Manuel

[Feralstorm]

... If a C64 gamebox used Atari hardware

... If an Amiga gamebox used Intel chips.

... If an Atari gamebox used Nin... never mind.

[Flojomojo]

[quote="sidcrowe"][quote=Room 34][quote=Gregory DG]Repeat that: Their goal is simply to cash in.[/quote]

Totally. It's like, if I acquired a company which made classic hockey sticks of famous pros, I might throw some crap together and throw it out the door to cash in on famous names...because I don't care.

If I cared, I wouldn't do that.

The people who own the Atari name DO NOT care. Game Over. [/quote]What I don't understand is the outrage everyone is expressing over that. Of course they don't care, and outside of a few individuals (Ken Love comes to mind), that's the way it is across the industry. It's business, that's just the way it is.

Don't tell me you felt loved and respected when Atari was under Tramiel or Warner .... [/i]

[sku_u]

[quote=Flojomojo]

The people who own the Atari name DO NOT care. Game Over. [/quote]What I don't understand is the outrage everyone is expressing over that. Of course they don't care, and outside of a few individuals (Ken Love comes to mind), that's the way it is across the industry. It's business, that's just the way it is.

Don't tell me you felt loved and respected when Atari was under Tramiel or Warner .... [/quote]

The main reason the outrage is there is that Atari effectively shut down a good portion of the creative community because they were afraid it would infringe on the sales of these things. There are a lot of people here who have been programming games for the Atari systems on their spare time only to see Atari request that all sales of anything even vaguely resembling one of the games that game out 25 years ago stop immediately, including most pixellated merchandise like frisbees and t shirts which they do not own the rights to, but know damn well that anyone they do this to will stop because they do not have the time or resources to take it to court.

[candiru]

Aside from the high price and dumb-looking red stripe design across the "console" I was still sort of interested in one. Seeing the mention of the sticks being worse than the 7800s and poor collision detection killed any desire I had for owning one. I don't forgive poor collision detection.

Well, maybe if I saw one for under $10....

[Beer Monkey]

I can understand not liking this unit, but why the blanket hate for Jakks?

If this flashback unit was like the Jakks paddle (with games coded by Digital Eclipse), it would be 99% accurate and kick ass.

Maybe some Jakks units suck but the paddle is pretty good. Hopefully a sign of good things to come.

[sidcrowe]

Quote

It's business, that's just the way it is.

Oh Lord , yes, I know it's a business. I know it's not a fantasyland of love and caring. I don't mean to be rude; some people need a reminder. Not me.

Yes, it's business, but there are good and bad businesses. It's like buying something on ebay; some people give you a fair shake, while others fuck you over

I'm not expecting the world from these assholes. We live in an age where the newest handhelds have more power than most PCs had around 10 years ago. We love those old Atari games, but by today's memory and technical standards, they are a joke. Like I said, I have PSONE discs of Defender, Asteroids and Robotron that play perfect. How damn difficult can it be to put a handful of old Atari games into a stand-alone unit?

Here's where the hate comes in. A small community keeps the spirit of these games alive. None of the tinkering we do will end up on the shelves of Wal Mart, so the market the homebrewers have is so small as to not even be worth bothering about. However, these guys bring the hammer down on everybody (not just AA), telling us, in effect, "WE ARE THE PROFESSIONALS! STAND BACK, nothing to see here! Stand back, stay away from that, we know what's best, trust us, we'll do what's right! Walk away or we'll sue you." They have nothing to gain or protect.

THEY ARE JUST BEING MEAN

Then, when it comes time to show what they can do, they offer up crap. How can you not hate people such as that?

They hurt the hobby, and they also offer garbage quality. They're assholes from both sides: TOTAL ASSHOLES

Imagine if they made sloppy things like the Flashback, but left us alone?

or

Imagine if they made perfect products after threatening the community?

Instead, they won't leave hobbyists alone, and they also make crap.

A year or so ago when they started the Flashback project, they obviously did so with the intent of a quick and easy cash-in. Authenticity was not important. Of course, none of that is mentioned in the ads for the product.

"Lame, slapped-together approximations of the games you loved---the Atari Flashback!"

Wanna buy that? Me, neither

Worse, the games aren't good enough, so people give them a first try and say "Your old games are shit," so we look like losers, too.

As for Jakks, I got no real problem with them. Their versions were off a little, too. But they aren't Atari. At the very least I expected grames to be able to offer authentic versions, but they're as sloppy as Jakks.

Grames showed their true colors with this piece of shit. It's a lousy product and BAD business

[2600 Forever]

I don't recall you ever contributing anything to the classic gaming community, I wish you would just shut the f*ck up and go back to where you came from. You do more harm with your stupid posts than anything else.

[FireTiger]

you (2600 Forever) know him/her? (sidecrow)

One of the purposes of a forum is to express opinions, the opinion expressed by sidcrowe was within forum rules, yours is borderline in my opinion. All sidcrowe has to do to contribute is buy one homebrew or hack... that is a contrubution, also getting other people intrested in the old hardwere and getting them to buy such things, or expanding peoples knowlage about our community (as one of them might decide to defend the communtiy leagaly on a lark or program a game on a dare or some-such.

IMHO you are the one comming off as a (idot) becuae of both your language and berivity.

One of my favortie games is Desert Flacon, but according to this it flickers and has bad collision detection, I really want a picture, but I can take the words farther above as true. I would have probally gotten it if the conversion of DF was correct.

[2600 Forever]

contrubution
intrested
hardwere
knowlage
communtiy
leagaly
comming
idot
becuae
favortie
Flacon
probally

Come again?

[Albert]

To both Sidcrowe and 2600 Forever: If this topic cannot be discussed without name calling and insults, then I am going to moderate your posts.

Thank you,

..Al

[Beer Monkey]

Quote

As for Jakks, I got no real problem with them. Their versions were off a little, too. But they aren't Atari. At the very least I expected grames to be able to offer authentic versions, but they're as sloppy as Jakks.

Again, the Jakks paddle is miles beyond the other Jakks units. The paddle designers had the commitment and attention to detail to make sure the games were as close as possible, and in fact they are near-perfect.

[Justin42]

Well, since the thread I started is slowly disintegrating into a flame war, I feel like I should say that I totally understand the criticisms -- after all, I'm one of only 2 or 3 people who have posted who've actually played the thing!

No, it's not perfect. If you have a real 7800 and are happy with it, there is really nothing to see here (except perhaps a very good version of Saboteur you don't need a Cuttle Cart/emulator to play). But the Flashback does a pretty good job with probably 15 of the games on it. Not perfect, but fun and playable. It's too bad some of the ~5 stinkers are pretty bad.

Is Infogrames a business? Yes. Should it have been better? Yes. Could they, with more time spent on the product, put out a better unit? Hell yeah. Is the Flashback a pile of radioactive waste, waiting to burn and destroy the souls of all who come near it? uhhhhhm, don't think so.

It's a $40 toy. It's not worth getting all worked up over. Spend the energy writing Infogrames (AFTER you've at least seen one, so you can make knowledgable criticisms) to tell them you want a better unit.

[sidcrowe]

Quote

To both Sidcrowe and 2600 Forever: If this topic cannot be discussed without name calling and insults, then I am going to moderate your posts.

I have never spoken in such a fashion to anyone on this forum.

Although I would like it if we could edit our posts, in this case I am pleased that we cannot. The evidence is there for all to examine

[Albert]

sidcrowe said:

I have never spoken in such a fashion to anyone on this forum.

I am not necessarily talking about an individual here, but your incessant and non-stop ranting about how much you hate Atari. That's fine, but there are better ways to make your point than to simply plaster your posts with obscenities and insults every time Atari comes up.

..Al

[Beer Monkey]

Quote

It's a $40 toy. It's not worth getting all worked up over.

That's a darned good point. It's a toy, not repro game system. It's targeted towards 'regular' consumers who have a retro itch to scratch. It's not for hardcore classic gamers.

It is what it is. A toy. No big deal.

[sidcrowe]

"Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer"

-Mark Twain

I let myself go a little because this is mostly a forum for 30something men. I'd like to think I offer more than just a few swears. If, for example, I wrote nothing but

ATARI _(*&)*&%(&^$*^%$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could see it, but I get what you mean. From this point on in this thread onward, I'll taper off a little with the anger.

Heck, I would've liked to have talked about a cool new product; talk about giving it as a gift, exchange photos, etc.

It's just a lousy item. Sometimes it feels good to cuss a little

Don't trust a man who doesn't swear

[Albert]

sidcrowe said:

I let myself go a little because this is mostly a forum for 30something men. I'd like to think I offer more than just a few swears. If, for example, I wrote nothing but  

ATARI _(*&)*&%(&^$*^%$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I could see it, but I get what you mean. From this point on in this thread onward, I'll taper off a little with the anger.

First, this forum is frequented by far more than just "30something men", so that's something to keep in mind when posting. While us "30something men" are one demographic these old-school games appeal to (since we grew up with them), there are many younger individuals who are discovering these games for the first time. I am not adverse to periodic swearing in the forum, and I am not personally offended by profanity. However, this is a public forum and I would appreciate that those posting in it would be considerate to those around them to make it a more pleasant experience.

Thanks,

..Al

[jsoper]

Isn't it ironic that the 7800 was such a laughing stock when it came out with those joystick, audio, and small library issues; but now it's considered a high quality product?

[Shaggy the Atarian]

What we should hope for at the very least is that they learn from mistakes made with the Flashback and improve on it next time they decide to release something of this nature. What do we want to see/expect out of a new piece of hardware from Atari in the future? I hope they learn from their mistakes and work on better hardware for the future.

[sidcrowe]

Yeah, and the joysticks, too. As long as it's a 2600/7800 hybrid, why not take the better sticks of the 2600?

What a typically fu-f-f....

...flawed decision.

[Flojomojo]

jsoper said:

Isn't it ironic that the 7800 was such a laughing stock when it came out with those joystick, audio, and small library issues; but now it's considered a high quality product?

Who thinks it's high quality? I think the designers were just looking for an old design to ape. 2600 was already done with the Jakks stick and paddles. 5200 is just ridiculous. Why not 7800, since it hadn't been done before?

[Cousin Vinnie]

I might have missed this point in the heated debate, but I had this question...

Do the smaller controllers hurt your hands more or less than the original Pro-Lines?

CV

[Joey Kay]

Albert said:

sku_u said:

I honestly think the plug and play market is already oversaturated as it is.  Putting out something like this when there are already a bunch of other cheaper ones to choose from wasn't a good idea.

I agree about the market being a bit saturated with all these retro units. I don't remember what store I was in (probably a Target) but they had what must have been 10 feet of floor space dedicated top to bottom with these units, in all shapes and sizes from several different manufacturers. I think what's going to happen is that these will collectively not sell as well as they need to to keep all these companies happy, and that next year there will be a downsizing of sorts.

Of course, I could be wrong and these items may sell like hotcakes this holiday season, which means we'd see even more of them next year.

..Al

Wouldn't it be a deliciously ironic situation if Atari ended up getting millions of these units shipped back to them because they ended up overestimating the market and overshipping a craptacular product...

Why didn't they just call this machine "E.T. 2004"

Cheers!

Joey