15 replies to this topic

[Simon]

I'm currently developing "Mental Kombat" and have the following problem:

I finally decided to use the BW/Color-Switch for changing between PAL and NTSC in the game. I already adjusted the screen-positions, but have to add the different colors. Another possibility would have been producing two different carts for PAL and NTSC, but I prefer the Switch-solution.

In comparing the color tables of the TIA between PAL and NTSC I didn't find a yellow on the PAL palette. Is my color-chart wrong or what code do you use for yellow in PAL?

Thanks in advance,

Simon

[Cybergoth]

Hi Simon!

Unfortunately, there is really no yellow in the PAL palette

And you should consider using one of the difficulty switches for the PAL/NTSC swap, as there's diverse hardware out there, that doesn't have the B/W switch...

Greetings,
Manuel

[Thomas Jentzsch]

quote:

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Originally posted by Simon:

In comparing the color tables of the TIA between PAL and NTSC I didn't find a yellow on the PAL palette. Is my color-chart wrong or what code do you use for yellow in PAL?
Simon

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Funny, I had the identical problem when adding a PAL switch to Thrust, too.

Because there isn't a real yellow in PAL, I used $2e instead.

And as Manuel already said, you should use a difficulty switch, because newer hardware like the 7600 doesn't have a b/w switch anymore.

[Simon]

Hi Manuel and Thomas,

funny that only german answered my question, but we're discussing in english and entertaining all the others.

I know that only the original 2600 has got the BW/Color-Switch. My problem is that both difficulty-switches are already used for game-options, as described on: http://www.quernhorst.de/atari/

Therefore I will definately use the BW/Color-Switch...

I wrote down a list of the NTSC-color-values used in Mental Kombat and will translate them at the weekend into PAL-colors (as far as it's possible). Too sad that red and yellow are the most important colors in my game...

Thomas: "newer hardware like the 7600"? I guess you meant the 7800...as I don't care if MK would run on any prototype-machine out there...

Simon

[Cybergoth]

Hi Simon!

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I know that only the original 2600 has got the BW/Color-Switch. My problem is that both difficulty-switches are already used for game-options, as described on: http://www.quernhorst.de/atari/  

So I'd completely drop the one/two joysticks option. Everybody seriously playing VCS games today has two Joysticks. (I think I've ~ 40 Atari Joysticks lying around and I'm the casual hobbyist collector only.)

Besides, you could always allow both joystick ports to work as input device for the current player.

Greetings,
Manuel

[Simon]

Hi Manuel,

I'll keep the usage of the difficulty-switches as they're right now. I recommend people fetching a real 2600 in case they want to play the Mental Kombat cart and don't have a 2600 right now...

Are there other colors besides yellow which can't be found on the TIA-PAl-chart?

Thanks for your suggestions so far, Simon

[Cybergoth]

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I'll keep the usage of the difficulty-switches as they're right now. I recommend people fetching a real 2600 in case they want to play the Mental Kombat cart and don't have a 2600 right now...

Well, I'd assume that anybody buying a MK cartridge will in fact already own a 2600, so you might get away with it.

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Are there other colors besides yellow which can't be found on the TIA-PAl-chart?

Well, see yourself...

The PAL colours are a bit too pale due to Eckhard being almost color-blind , but in general it's coming close to the real thing...

Greetings,
Manuel

[Thomas Jentzsch]

quote:

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Originally posted by Simon:
funny that only german answered my question, but we're discussing in english and entertaining all the others.

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Perhaps the german 2600 homebrew scene is he most active one at the moment?

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Are there other colors besides yellow which can't be found on the TIA-PAl-chart?

I think, nearly no NTSC color can be exactly matched to a PAL color, but AFAIK yellow is the only color, where it's hard to find even a nearly matching color.

[Simon]

Manuel: the chart is exactly the one I'm refering to at the moment. I fetched it while scanning the [Stella]-Archives once. (No, I'm not a subscriber yet...)

I didn't understand your joke "... Eckhard being almost color-blind", because the person who posted the colorchart was someone named Glenn Saunders, wasn't it?

Thomas: good to hear that only yellow is missing totally. Why the heck did I use it so much in my game so far? Grrrrr...

Simon

[Cybergoth]

Hi Simon!

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I didn't understand your joke "... Eckhard being almost color-blind", because the person who posted the colorchart was someone named Glenn Saunders, wasn't it?

Glenn compiled these charts using Z26 screenshots, which has the PAL colors choosen by Eckhard

Greetings,
Manuel

[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: Cybergoth ]

[Eckhard Stolberg]

@Simon

The colour chart is based on the colour values that we use in z26. John and I tried the best we could with the PAL palette, but eventually lost interest, since we know we would never be able to get the colours exactly right.

When someone on the Stella list complained about PAL palette in z26 recently, I replied that we gladly would accept a better one from anyone who is less colour-blind than me. So Simon as you can see, sometimes it's an advantage to be a member of the Stella list, even if it's just for understanding some stupid jokes over here.

@Manuel
BTW, did you change the background colour in PAL Gunfight before you sent the binary to Randy, as I suggested?


Ciao, Eckhard Stolberg

[Lost Monkey]

quote:

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Originally posted by Thomas Jentzsch:

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Originally posted by Simon:
[qb]funny that only german answered my question, but we're discussing in english and entertaining all the others.

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Perhaps the german 2600 homebrew scene is he most active one at the moment?  

It may also have something to do with the fact that all of North America was shrouded in darkness and sleep when the question and the first few responses were posted.

Um?.. yeah..

[Thomas Jentzsch]

quote:

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Originally posted by Lost Monkey:
It may also have something to do with the fact that all of North America was shrouded in darkness and sleep when the question and the first few responses were posted.Um?.. yeah..

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Ha, real homebrewers never sleep!

[Cybergoth]

Hi Eckhard!

Of course I changed the Gunfight background to the exact value you suggested.

Then I discovered on Z26 that there was no more contrast between the background and the cowboys faces, so I darkened the face color a little to $48 as well.

It's looking good again on Z26 now.

And according to Randy both versions run fine on the carts that are for sale now.

When finally my own PAL cartridge arrives, I can confirm if everythings okay with it or not, if you're interested.

Greetings,
Manuel

[Simon]

Thanks for your answers so far, mates!

Which colors would you suggest for the two C64-blue-colors in the intro? What do you think which colors are (in both PAL- and NTSC-charts) as close to the real C64-Screen as possible? Testing every possible color is really boring...

Thanks!

Simon

[liveinabin]

Hey Manuel, couldn't help but notice that theres no PAL yellow on 2600. erm....I think you had a fair bit in gunfight. What colour you gonna use in PAL?
Hey, you could use blue and call it Gunfight:Waterworld hehe