110 replies to this topic

[Tsukasa]

It'd would be simple enough to do if you just take a drive bay cover and cut a hole in it the size of a cartridge, then sort of make your own case. A dead CD-Rom case would probably be fine.

[Delicon]

I am working on the programmer schematic. I need a little help. I need a way to turn power on to the cartridge connector from a pin on the ATMega8. I cant leave power connected all the time because its possible when inserting and removing a cart that you can short the power pins. So, not only would it have to be able to turn power on, the circuit would also have to handle a short across the cartridge power pins when power is off.

I am really a software guy, I am a self taught digital guy, and I can only barely scratch the surface of the analog stuff, so maybe and expert out there could help, maybe point me to a schematic or draw one yourself, maybe recommend some parts. I could use a relay, but that doesnt seem to be the right solution here (at least thats what my gut tells me).

Thanks,

Vern

[batari]

I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to do, but if I'm understanding it right, I think you can use a transistor and a resistor or two in an open collector configuration. Whether it will actually work (and what part to use) depends on your output voltage and current requirements.

[pissant]

Delicon: I just took a look at your layout. You've got half of the USB connector sitting out in space there. Not a big deal, but that package that you decided to use has case grounding pads out there too. Either you'll need to cut those off, or use a different connector.

Cutting them off isn't a good idea... the reason that they have 4 is to make sure that connector is nice and secure... with the surface mount stuff that isn't always guaranteed.

I'd say use a thru hole USB connector instead. It will be much stronger and doesn't use any more space than the one that you are using. I can give you a part number (and an eagle library) for one if you want.

Also, you might want to change the pads on your MLF package for the atmel chip. You are violating the 8mil clearance with it right now. Just make the pads a little skinnier and it'll be fine. Same goes for the silabs device (MLP package) on the bottom.

[Delicon]

pissant said:

I'd say use a thru hole USB connector instead. It will be much stronger and doesn't use any more space than the one that you are using. I can give you a part number (and an eagle library) for one if you want.

Also, you might want to change the pads on your MLF package for the atmel chip. You are violating the 8mil clearance with it right now. Just make the pads a little skinnier and it'll be fine. Same goes for the silabs device (MLP package) on the bottom.

A through hole connector on the mini usb might be a good idea, I already had the surface mount version done, so I used it. Hanging it off is not really that bad. You just tell the board maker about it and they cut that off before they panelize it, saves you from making another library part. The part also has mounting hole which help to absorb the wear and tear. But in all your right, through hole for that might be good.

The 8mil violation is ok, I have produced boards with those libraries before and they are acceptable. Sparkfun has even made them for me, and they have an 8mil tolerance.

That board was more of a feasibility thing. I am not going with the mix. The board is just out of control.

I am doing up the programmer now. I hope to post both the programmer and the through hole cart tonight. I hope these will be the final revisions. After I post them, I will place an order for the boards so I can do testing.

Thanks for checking them out.

Vern

[Delicon]

Heres the programmer. I made it generic, so if someone wants to rearrange it to fit in an enclosure it shouldnt be too hard. I also built in a Pony Prog programmer to put code onto the AVR microcontroller. Its only about $1.25 worth of parts. If you already have an AVRISP compatible programmer, you can use it and not populate the Pony Prog, saving $1.25.

Heres the parts list, sorry they come from 2 different places, but this is stuff I have around already. I am sure with a little research all the parts could be found at Digikey.

Digikey Parts:

            Digikey part #          Description                    Price   Comments

U1          296-1402-5-ND           RS232 Interface                $0.78

U2          296-13996-5-ND          5V Regulator                   $0.52

U3          ATMEGA8-16PC-ND         AVR Microcontroller            $3.66

OSC1        XC247-ND                5V 14.7456MHz Oscillator       $2.13

CONN1       S1126-ND                24POS Edge Card connector      $2.96

CONN2       CP-102A-ND              2.1mm Power Jack               $0.38

SW1         CT2084-ND               4POS Dip Switch                $0.51   Only populate if using Pony Prog

C1          BC1136CT-ND             0.33uF cap                     $0.27

C2, C8      BC1084CT-ND             0.1uF cap                      $0.16

C3-C7       BC1151CT-ND             1.0uF cap                      $0.45

D1, D2      1N4747ADICT-ND          20V Zener Diode                $0.36   Only populate if using Pony Prog

D3          P391-ND                 2 Color LED                    $0.59

R1, R2      4.7KQBK-ND              4.7K Ohm Resistor              $0.06   Only populate if using Pony Prog

R3, R4      470QBK-ND               470 Ohm Resistor               $0.06



Jameco Parts:

            Jameco part #           Description                    Price   Comments

CONN3       104951CC                9 Pin Female DSUB              $0.60

JP1         115035CC                3x2 Male Header                $0.18   Only populate if using AVRISP

NOTMARKED   78641CC                 30 Pin inline Socket           $0.89   These are used to raise the cartridge connector

I will post the cartridge in the morning. I ordered the boards from sparkfun this time, so it will be a couple weeks before I get them in. This should be it though.

Vern

Attached Files

•  programmer.zip   19.75K   61 downloads

[Tsukasa]

Can I have your 2600 libraries for eagle?

[Delicon]

Tsukasa said:

Can I have your 2600 libraries for eagle?

You already have them. Just run the exp-project-lbr.ulp script, that comes with eagle, on the files I have posted.

[Delicon]

New files.

The cartridge and the programmer. I updated the programmer so you can add USB support. I have cancelled my earlier orders and will be ordering these versions. I am going to give them a final look over and place the order. Hope this is it.

Vern

Attached Files

•  chimerajr41a.zip   20.15K   64 downloads
•  programmer11a.zip   23.35K   70 downloads

[Haydn Jones]

anyone plan on selling these, would anyone buy these?
I'm thinking of asking a friend to help produce some of these if it is acceptable to everyone involved and could sell enough to make it worth while.

haydn

[Dav]

I'm thinking about running off a batch. I'll have to wait and see what he comes up with for the final design.

[Tsukasa]

Delicon said:

I need a way to turn power on to the cartridge connector from a pin on the ATMega8.  I cant leave power connected all the time because its possible when inserting and removing a cart that you can short the power pins.  So, not only would it have to be able to turn power on, the circuit would also have to handle a short across the cartridge power pins when power is off.Vern

Would one of these work? http://www.intersil....wer/hotplug.asp

[Delicon]

Tsukasa said:

Delicon said:

I need a way to turn power on to the cartridge connector from a pin on the ATMega8.  I cant leave power connected all the time because its possible when inserting and removing a cart that you can short the power pins.  So, not only would it have to be able to turn power on, the circuit would also have to handle a short across the cartridge power pins when power is off.Vern

Would one of these work? http://www.intersil....wer/hotplug.asp

I decided not to worry about this. The cart would have to be at such an extremely awkward angle to short the connectors. It is not difficult to insert the cart roughly straight into the slot. The solution that I did come up with was to use a reed relay in a sip package. Cheap, small, and would work great, but not really necessary. If you guys feel you want it, I would put it in, let me know. Thanks for checking though.

Vern

[vdub_bobby]

Haydn Jones said:

anyone plan on selling these, would anyone buy these?
I'm thinking of asking a friend to help produce some of these if it is acceptable to everyone involved and could sell enough to make it worth while.

haydn

If the price was close to the $25 mentioned above I'd definitely definitely buy one. If it is significantly more then I'll probably just save my beans and buy a Krocodile.

This is pretty exciting, though :)

[Dav]

I could have done the original design for $25, about what it would cost to build yourself. Buying the parts in volume saves enough to pay for the labor. I haven't looked at this usb stuff yet though.

[Delicon]

vdub_bobby said:

If the price was close to the $25 mentioned above I'd definitely definitely buy one.  If it is significantly more then I'll probably just save my beans and buy a Krocodile.

This is pretty exciting, though

If people are holding out instead of buying the Krocodile, I would suggest buying the Krocodile. The Krocodile is much nicer. Not to mention you can actually get your hands on one and you know it will work. It has a great interface and loads games quickly.

This cart does not have a nifty interface. You use Hyper Terminal for Windows or the equivalent for Mac and Linux, as long as it has xmodem file transfer. Every time you download a game you may need to download a new bankswitching file (100K file). You need to know which bankswitching type goes with which games. Nothing is done automatically. The Krocodile handles all this for you.

I would suggest this project to those people who like lead poisoning (solder fumes) and enjoy the process of building their own items. This project has cost me a couple Krocodile carts so far. But I do it because I enjoy the creating part. I am sharing it because I know there are other people who enjoy that also.

What I would like to see is someone ordering more than a few boards and then sell them to the hobbyist to build their own. Maybe include the parts in a kit. Quantity ordering of parts can save a lot, sometimes almost half the cost. That would bring the price down to a very reasonable level.

To build the equivalent of the Krocodile and the Cuttle you would end up paying close to what you pay if you bought them. The only savings you would get is the labor of manufacturing.

I guess what I am saying is dont think you are getting the same thing as the Krocodile. This is an inferior product. Armin has spent over two years (that I know about) working on the Krocodile. It has been tested and proven true. This Chimera cart that I am working on is just for fun.

Sorry to rant, just dont want to be misleading anyone,

Vern

[Kroko]

Delicon said:

The Krocodile is much nicer.

How do you know ? Your device is not finished, so a comparison is difficult at this point. Maybe this device can support Supercharger mode, when it is finished.

Delicon said:

It has a great interface

Thanks ! I could think that some people are willing to spent time to
create such an interface for your device, too. Maybe you are bored some rainy day and create it yourself :-)

Delicon said:

and loads games quickly.

Yes, its quick, but with USB you could (at least in theory) compensate that you have to download more code to the device.

Delicon said:

You need to know which bankswitching type goes with which games.  Nothing is done automatically.

Only a question of the interface. Take a stella.pro file, and calculate the binaries MD5.There is not much more to do.

Delicon said:

Armin has spent over two years (that I know about) working on the Krocodile.  It has been tested and proven true.  This Chimera cart that I am working on is just for fun.

Yes, but partly because I did not know a lot about programmable logic, when I started with the project. Its easier if you know how to do it :-)

Armin

[Delicon]

Your not suppose to fight me when I am trying to get people to buy your product!!!!

On the more serious side, $100 dollars is more than reasonable for a great product. Considering the costs of raw product and the time it take to assemble, and then the shipping costs (shipping of raw materials and shipping to US). Then add the development time, pcb design, cpld design, circuit board design, and time it took to program a usable front end.

Oh well, I will step down from my box.

On another note, boards should ships to me next Tues.

Vern

[vdub_bobby]

Delicon said:

vdub_bobby said:

If the price was close to the $25 mentioned above I'd definitely definitely buy one.  If it is significantly more then I'll probably just save my beans and buy a Krocodile.

If people are holding out instead of buying the Krocodile, I would suggest buying the Krocodile. The Krocodile is much nicer. Not to mention you can actually get your hands on one and you know it will work. It has a great interface and loads games quickly.

$100 vs. $25 is the main thing here. Plus USB support is nice. If someone will make one for me for around $25, or if it is possible to make one myself for around $25, then I would love to have one. I'll probably get a Krocodile eventually, anyway, but I don't know if I can scrape up the 100 bones right now.
Plus, I mostly want a flash cart so I can test my code on real hardware; I'm not interested (right now, heh) in making a sooper-dooper multicart.

[Delicon]

If it costs you $0.80 more and you had to cut a little bit away from a plastic case to make it fit, would you add a bigger CPLD to the through hole design?

With the bigger CPLD there would be no limitations to the bankswitching. The other bonus would be that there would only be one version of the software and CPLD designs. I dont like juggling two versions of code.

As it stands now, the surface mount can handle all banking schemes because it has access at all the VCS lines. The through hole version does not have access to D4-7.

The reason I am bringing this up now, is because I can still cancel my board order, and I think the supercharger uses all the data lines. I am sure yet, but I am pretty sure. It seems that the supercharger experts are keeping a tight lip. No one has replied to my query for information on the supercharger banking type.

Thanks for the input,

Vern

[Delicon]

Delicon said:

If it costs you $0.80 more and you had to cut a little bit away from a plastic case to make it fit, would you add a bigger CPLD to the through hole design?

Scratch that idea, wont fit. Just a hair off. Looks like two versions it is.

Vern

[Tsukasa]

I don't care if it doesn't fit in a cartridge case, as long as it works, I'm happy.
Maybe make the board longer and saw the back of the cartridge case off.

[Delicon]

Tsukasa said:

I don't care if it doesn't fit in a cartridge case, as long as it works, I'm happy.
Maybe make the board longer and saw the back of the cartridge case off.

Thats a great idea, I am killing myself trying to get it to fit in a case, when the solution is, I dont have to. The through hole and the surface mount will be the same design. The through hole wont fit, the surface mount will. Both will have programmers built in. Surface mount will have USB, through hole will have USB or RS232, depending on what you populate.

Just to give a preview, it will look something on the order the picture. This is a version from a different cart from way way back. I cant even find the code to get it to work.

I guess I will add tabs coming down off the board so that it cart goes easily into the VCS slot.

Thanks,

Vern

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[Albert]

Are there other cartridge shells, such as some third-party carts like those from Activision, that the board might fit more easily into?

..Al

[Delicon]

Albert said:

Are there other cartridge shells, such as some third-party carts like those from Activision, that the board might fit more easily into?

..Al

I just gutted my Spider Fighter and it looks like there is less room. There are two screws to work around and the front wall is up much higher than the case available at the AA store. Are all the Activision carts like this?

I think it will be better without a case anyway. Now there is plenty of room for the programmer. No need for another circuit board ($$$). I think it works out better. If there are any brave souls out there, they are welcome to try and fit it, I will post the schematics.

Also I will be able to add the full 1MB of optional flash and all bankswitching should be possible.