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Atari's Landfill Adventures, I now have the proof it's true.


Spud

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So have you changed your mind? Has enough evidence been presented for you to believe that truckloads of Atari products were buried there?

 

Only if you show me proof of millions of Atari carts buried will you change my mind in regards to the landfill myth Random.

So no you haven't changed my mind.

If you show me proof that Atari buried a bunch of crap in a landfill, it has nothing to do with the myth.

Not sure how to make it any clearer to you.

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So have you changed your mind? Has enough evidence been presented for you to believe that truckloads of Atari products were buried there?

Only if you show me proof of millions of Atari carts buried will you change my mind in regards to the landfill myth Random.

So no you haven't changed my mind.

If you show me proof that Atari buried a bunch of crap in a landfill, it has nothing to do with the myth.

Not sure how to make it any clearer to you.

More dancing and zig-zagging. Nice try, but it didn't work. Unless you ask Albert for permission to edit all of your other posts in this thread, you're not fooling anyone. You know you weren't just talking about millions of Atari cartridges in all of your posts, you were doubting that Atari buried anything there. Why deny it? It's not going to damage your ego or status as the most delicious sandwich at AtariAge. I'm still going with the theory that you made a bet and don't want to pay up.

 

I think we should stop for now and only continue if the thread starts to die again.

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you weren't just talking about millions of Atari cartridges in all of your posts, you were doubting that Atari buried anything there.

 

Really? So in all my posts I have to state specifically my beliefs even if I've already done so in other posts?

I would have to clarify, in every post that I was still talking about the myth we all already knew, so in the future you wouldn't get confused?

 

These were posts I made in this very thread.

 

Atari might have buried something that week, but what it was could be anything just to seal the fact that something was buried.

Companies dump stuff all the time...it's true, it's not something that you invest any time or brain power in covering up (Unless you are pulling a fast one maybe).

 

It doesn't sound like I was totally against the belief that Atari buried something there, does it? (I know, I'm zigzaggin. I didn't post this in every post I made in the thread so it doesn't count)

In fact somewhere else (I'm done searching) I theorized they buried a bunch of worthless stuff and used it as a cover to write off millions of E.T.s., at the end of the day though, the fact Atari buried something in a landfill wasn't something I ever had a problem with.

 

I do know I won't stop. What you are doing (and I have no clue why) is telling me what I believe and calling me a liar.

If you want to stop, I'll tell you, it would be appreciated.

If I did ever think that the thought of Atari burying anything other than million of perfectly fine carts was silly, I'm telling you now, I don't and no I don't have a bet with anybody and no I still don't believe the myth.

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you weren't just talking about millions of Atari cartridges in all of your posts, you were doubting that Atari buried anything there.

Really? So in all my posts I have to state specifically my beliefs even if I've already done so in other posts?

I would have to clarify, in every post that I was still talking about the myth we all already knew, so in the future you wouldn't get confused?

 

These were posts I made in this very thread.

 

Atari might have buried something that week, but what it was could be anything just to seal the fact that something was buried.

Companies dump stuff all the time...it's true, it's not something that you invest any time or brain power in covering up (Unless you are pulling a fast one maybe).

 

It doesn't sound like I was totally against the belief that Atari buried something there, does it? . . .

I wanted to continue this later when the thread starts to die so it can keep on living, but I'll give you one more post for now. But let's not forget to come back later.

 

I searched using AtariAge and Google and I cannot find this mysterious post of yours that you quoted here:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/66637-ataris-landfill-adventures-i-now-have-the-proof-its-true/page__view__findpost__p__1927485

 

And after looking back again, if I read correctly, it took you until some time in 2006 to finally agree that something was probably buried there by Atari. But I cannot find your posts that seem to say specifically that Atari didn't bury anything there and that it would be stupid for them to do so. I think that's proof you are a time traveling shape-shifting reptilian alien who tries to make other people look silly by changing what they already read. The frustration softens up their brains and adds flavor. I'm onto your tricks, so you can do all of the time traveling you want, but you won't make my brain squishy and delicious!

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But let's not forget to come back later.

So you can continue telling me what I believe?

No thanks RT, calling me a liar is not near as amusing as you've got it in your head.

I think you have it backwards. Your own words in your first post in this thread are calling you a liar. We're supposed to believe you meant "I don't believe a word of the story, except I do believe that a certain number of trucks from Atari dumped stuff there, but the number of trucks varies so much that it can't be true, but I still believe or maybe I don't. And I believe that bulldozers, cement trucks, and security guards were not there, except on every third Wednesday when I believe. The photos are either fake or so fuzzy that they could be of anything, but I believe they are real because Big Foot told me they're genuine since he was there."

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Your own words in your first post in this thread are calling you a liar.

 

My first post refers to millions of Atari carts. The myth. I didn't and don't believe Atari buried millions of Atari carts.

You are confused because I didn't state out my entire theory in that first posts is that what this is about?

I just told you what I think, accept it or don't RT.

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Yeah...all you need is expensive excavation equipment, a permit to dig, and expenses for the trip. And even after that, the discovery of some few destroyed components does not provide concrete evidence that millions of anything exists there (and to those that did not participate, no evidence that such an expedition existed at all).

 

My opinion:

I'm aware of the situation that companies were in at the time, and I'm more than familiar with excess inventory managment strategies (most notably...intentionally destroying finished goods to be eligable to write them off the bottom line, which isn't necessarily limited to crisis situations). So there's not really any reason for me to doubt the story, regardless of how inconsistant that reports of it were.

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Boy are you grasping for straws now in an attempt to give some assemblance of a coherent snide come back. It's very simple. You keep on going off about the 1 million carts thing, and keep sloppily crossing it in to "there's no dump at all" territory. When you cross in to that, you sound like a loony. Nobody was stating any unfamiliarity with said E.T. cart myth, that you keep going after when, once again, the title of the thread is about the landfill in general.

You want to keep punching at the million cart myth that's already been disproven, knock your self out. But when that starts treading over to wording alluding to there being no landfill at all, I will call you on that as I did.

The landfill story has ALWAYS gone hand-in-hand with the E.T. myth, specifically 5 million copies of the game(Did you know?). *If* that myth has finally been disproved, it's thanks to skeptics like moycon who have consistently challenged it and the "evidence" used to support it. It's entirely disingenuous for you or anyone else to suggest that moycon has ever argued the existence of the landfill on any other point than it being the repository of millions of unsold/returned E.T. cartridges. Likewise, to suggest that this thread exists outside of the context of that aspect of the myth is absurd.

 

Frankly, sir, I don't see how you get off calling moycon a lunatic. For five years, he's been the sanest voice in this thread. He's been quite consistent in his position on the subject, and your attempt to fashion him into some sort of straw-man to whip whenever you want to make a point that he's already made a thousand times, is worse than biting hand that feeds you.

 

I hope you do a better job of keeping the facts straight in your book than you have in this thread.

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The landfill story has ALWAYS gone hand-in-hand with the E.T. myth,

 

Never said anything in regards to that. However, this thread has continued to change and evolve as stated, it is no longer just about the "hand in hand" myth. A simple look over previous posts over the last few years shows that.

 

*If* that myth has finally been disproved, it's thanks to skeptics like moycon who have consistently challenged it and the "evidence" used to support it.

 

LOL, it was disproved years ago regardless of the discussion here. None of the materials of the time - internal or otherwise - or interviews we conducted with people involved, ever contained anything in conjunction with the millions of E.T. carts buried myth. They always were/are in regards to a wide range of products that were destroyed and buried there and other locations. That wasn't the first time or only time they did something like that, it just became high profile because of the timing.

 

 

It's entirely disingenuous for you or anyone else to suggest that moycon has ever argued the existence of the landfill on any other point than it being the repository of millions of unsold/returned E.T. cartridges.

 

And it's disingenuous of you to state otherwise (as Random Terrain has already shown through his quotes), or to whine about people pointing out his wording can certainly be taken as such.

 

 

Likewise, to suggest that this thread exists outside of the context of that aspect of the myth is absurd.

 

Hmmm....a simple look at the backlog of posts shows discussion outside of the context and about the dumping in general. Absurdity seems to me your forte right about now. :roll:

 

Frankly, sir, I don't see how you get off calling moycon a lunatic.

 

Didn't. Said he was sounding like one if he was claiming there was no dumping, period, which is what his wording was coming off like (and I'm not the only one to think that). In fact it was very clearly stated "You sound like" and specifically in relation to if he was claiming there was no dumping by Atari there period.

 

For five years, he's been the sanest voice in this thread. He's been quite consistent in his position on the subject, and your attempt to fashion him into some sort of straw-man to whip whenever you want to make a point that he's already made a thousand times, is worse than biting hand that feeds you.

 

LOL, if that's what you think, you have a rather shallow ability to read a persons posts or contexts. And that's the real double standard there, you making inaccurate statements like that in defense of some supposed attack while glossing over entirely inaccurate statements by

him (like I was claiming there was no E.T. myth, or ridiculous statements about my partnership with Curt).

 

I hope you do a better job of keeping the facts straight in your book than you have in this thread.

 

:roll:

 

Yes, because your response was the very model of "keeping the facts straight". LOL, wow, you sure put the kabash on our books with that one, geeze. I guess we better redo the years of cross referencing and fact checking we've been doing on this and every other subject. Oh wait, can't say "we", I'm not allowed to bring up my research partner or it sounds like my statement can't hold weight or there may be accusations of "bromances" again. LOL, nope, no double standards. Enjoy your "bromance" with moycon though. ;)

 

And I'm with RT on this, the convo is going nowhere. Everyone has said what they're going to and it's just going to devolve in to further personally charged inaccurate rants like yours. Later!

Edited by wgungfu
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LOL, it was disproved years ago regardless of the discussion here.

 

Again, what is your goal? It sounds like you are agreeing with what I've been saying for years? You are saying the myth wasn't true. That is EXACTLY what I have been saying. Is that your major issue, you're mad because we agree and I'm not a serious researcher like you are? Is your goal to get me to admit the myth is something other than it's always been? I'm really confused as to your motives for going on and on.

 

The myth hasn't evolved, it's the same now as it was 25 years ago. If it's evolved it's only in your mind. Why do you continue to come into the thread and talk down to people, is it because in your mind the myth has changed and everyone else that doesn't think like you is a loony? (I'll speculate some more since you won't answer) Is this some sort of bizarre PR for your new book? (A book I won't be supporting, anyone that has this HUGE of an issue with someones belief on a subject as frivolous as this needs to be avoided, not supported), are you upset because I didn't post my specific theory in every single post in this thread so you think I should be ridiculed as unprofessional? Are you just wanting to have the last word? This will be the third time I am asking you this. What exactly are you hoping to accomplish by continuing to try and belittle me (and obviously anyone who agrees with me) over what I/we believe?

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Again, what is your goal?

 

Why of course it's to sit here and go around in circles and belittle you like you're trying to portray it as. Isn't that everyone's goal here?

 

 

It sounds like you are agreeing with what I've been saying for years? You are saying the myth wasn't true. That is EXACTLY what I have been saying.

 

Great, repeating it over and over changes what?

 

 

Is that your major issue, you're mad because we agree and I'm not a serious researcher like you are?

 

More high school level baiting.

 

The myth hasn't evolved, it's the same now as it was 25 years ago. If it's evolved it's only in your mind.

 

Again, WTF are you talking about? Never stated the myth "evolved", or anything in regards to to a myth evolving. My exact statement was "this thread has continued to change and evolve as stated, it is no longer just about the "hand in hand" myth."

 

 

 

Why do you continue to come into the thread and talk down to people,

 

:roll: That's exactly what you're doing. That's exactly what you do in almost every post on this subject, including ones to other people. Honestly, this is ridiculous already.

 

 

is it because in your mind the myth has changed and everyone else that doesn't think like you is a loony?

 

More left field lunacy. Once again, never stated anything about a "myth changing".

 

 

(I'll speculate some more since you won't answer)

 

Speculative, childish attempt at flame bate deleted.

 

What exactly are you hoping to accomplish by continuing to try and belittle me (and obviously anyone who agrees with me) over what I/we believe?

 

LOL, you're the one continuing to attempt to belittle and keeping this garbage going. LOL, I did no such thing about anyone agreeing with you regarding the myth, here we go again with the circular reasoning. "You are saying the myth wasn't true. That is EXACTLY what I have been saying" but now you're accusing me of not agreeing and trying to belittle over it, you can't have it both ways - because that attempt at logic would state I'm also belittling myself in the process. Nice try on trying to draw a dividing line for sympathy. Honestly just let it go already and move on. It's not accomplishing anything, and I have nothing against you as a person - so please quit trying to portray it as such.

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but now you're accusing me of not agreeing

 

You're wrong. I said it sounds like we do agree which makes your constant dissecting of entire posts even more bizarre to me. I was just wondering what the motive was.

But whatever, you stated your goal so at least we are accomplishing what you want.

In the end, that's all that matters to me, to make sure you are getting what you want out of this thread. :thumbsup:

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I don't understand how anyone can believe this didn't happen. I could see today people making fun of the incident and saying they dumped ET and PacMan cart, which everyone now know were way overproduced, but even back then one of the articles implied it was ET carts. C'mon and wake up. It definately happened/ It defiantely was one of Atari's low points, and we all should have a Retro Gaming Convention in New Mexico. Everyone bring your shovels and jackhammers.

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The landfill story has ALWAYS gone hand-in-hand with the E.T. myth,

 

Never said anything in regards to that. However, this thread has continued to change and evolve as stated, it is no longer just about the "hand in hand" myth. A simple look over previous posts over the last few years shows that.

Of course this thread has changed and evolved, thanks to the skeptics!

 

If you recognize that the E.T. myth has been discredited in this thread, then what the heck were you ever going on about?

 

*If* that myth has finally been disproved, it's thanks to skeptics like moycon who have consistently challenged it and the "evidence" used to support it.

 

LOL, it was disproved years ago regardless of the discussion here. None of the materials of the time - internal or otherwise - or interviews we conducted with people involved, ever contained anything in conjunction with the millions of E.T. carts buried myth.

We already know all this. It's what moycon has been saying all along. :ponder:

 

It's entirely disingenuous for you or anyone else to suggest that moycon has ever argued the existence of the landfill on any other point than it being the repository of millions of unsold/returned E.T. cartridges.

 

And it's disingenuous of you to state otherwise (as Random Terrain has already shown through his quotes), or to whine about people pointing out his wording can certainly be taken as such.

Oh, I assure you, there's nothing disingenuous about me telling you that you don't what you're on about. Like moycon, I fail to see what you're motive is in mischaracterizing his position and carrying on with this.

 

Likewise, to suggest that this thread exists outside of the context of that aspect of the myth is absurd.

 

Hmmm....a simple look at the backlog of posts shows discussion outside of the context and about the dumping in general. Absurdity seems to me your forte right about now. :roll:

Of course there have been all sorts of discussions in this thread. It has gone of on all sorts of tangents, including the one we're on now. Theories have been bandied about, evidence debated, etc., etc., but at it's core, this thread and moycon's point of view were always grounded in the myth of 5 million E.T. carts buried in the desert. Why is it so important for you to establish something to the contrary? To come in here 5 years later and try to retcon moycon's position is, I'll say it again, disingenuous and absurd.

 

Frankly, sir, I don't see how you get off calling moycon a lunatic.

 

Didn't. Said he was sounding like one if he was claiming there was no dumping, period, which is what his wording was coming off like (and I'm not the only one to think that). In fact it was very clearly stated "You sound like" and specifically in relation to if he was claiming there was no dumping by Atari there period.

Fine. But why cling to that qualification now? You've clearly insinuated as much, and it really doesn't make much difference now anyway.

 

And what's with "sounding like" and "if he was claiming"? What, again, is you're motive here?

 

For five years, he's been the sanest voice in this thread. He's been quite consistent in his position on the subject, and your attempt to fashion him into some sort of straw-man to whip whenever you want to make a point that he's already made a thousand times, is worse than biting hand that feeds you.

 

LOL, if that's what you think, you have a rather shallow ability to read a persons posts or contexts. And that's the real double standard there, you making inaccurate statements like that in defense of some supposed attack while glossing over entirely inaccurate statements by

him (like I was claiming there was no E.T. myth, or ridiculous statements about my partnership with Curt).

I'm not here to defend anything or anybody. I'm only criticizing the things you have said. Moreover, I don't see anything that would need defending in the first place. The record speaks for itself. A shallow reading of this thread is all it takes to understand moycon's point of view. It's been clear as day from the begining--5 million E.T. carts buried in the desert is a myth.

 

Enjoy your "bromance" with moycon though. ;)

You, sir, are a hypocrite.

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In a effort to maybe swing this back on track, is there any truth to the rumor that Atari's Borregas Street warehouse sat on top of crushed cartridges?
I can't document anything, but I remember hearing about this from fellow programmers back in the 80's when I lived in Mountain View (next door to Sunnyvale). So, at least the rumor's been confirmed as a valid rumor.
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Just for the record I don't think bromance is a bad thing in case anyone is interested. :cool:

RT and I had a fling, but it's long over, I swear.

Well, it had better be over, mister! :x

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't think the suggestion of a bromance is any big deal either. It's certainly nothing for anyone to get on their high horses about.

 

On reconsideration, I don't believe that the charge of hypocrisy was really fair with respect to bromances in a discussion that had reached the point that this one had, so I take it back wgungfu; I don't think you're a hypocrite. I wasn't the least bit offended and I can see that what you were saying was largely said for irony's sake anyway.

 

Of course, I remain utterly perplexed by your perspective on moycon's perspective, but seeing as that discussion is going nowhere, I think it's time to move on.

 

I'm gratified, at least, to see that this argument has finally "buried" the E.T. myth. However, without that myth, what remains isn't especially noteworthy--perhaps little more than a company just throwing out their garbage.

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I think it's time to move on.

 

 

 

 

I like pie.

Fair enough. Perhaps I should have stayed out of this one. I held out as long as I could, but in the end I couldn't sit back and watch while someone whose perspective on the subject I respected was being so egregiously misconstrued.

 

Nonetheless, I didn't involve myself here to create drama or to flame wgungfu, as you're implying. I only wanted to see that the record was set straight.

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