43 replies to this topic

[Andrew Davie]

My Engine (8MB MPG download) -- The link shows an MPG of my Atari 2600 playfield engine in action. Don't get too excited, as I'm not releasing this -- but one gets a good idea of the current state of the systems. I am still considering the game designs people have suggested, while I continue to add capabilities and test with a known target.
Cheers
A

[Haydn Jones]

That is a dam fine pice of work, and i love your new feature. Look forward to seeing/playing the end results

Haydn

[SteveW]

That two player mode looked unbelievably sweet!

Was that water filling in the bottom of the screen?

[Gregory DG]

Niiiiiiiice! Can't wait to play it on my CC2! (Good to see these new banking modes put to good use!)

Edited by Gregory DG, Sun Apr 24, 2005 8:57 PM.

[Andrew Davie]

SteveW, on Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:30 PM, said:

That two player mode looked unbelievably sweet!

Was that water filling in the bottom of the screen?

Yes indeed, that's water! The water is fully functional, slowly rising from the bottom. The MPG shows me waiting and you see another row of water being added. The engine has been designed from the start to have that two player capability with optional split-screen.

What I'm most pleased with is the scrolling, though.

Cheers
A

[SpiceWare]

Impressive!

[Mindfield]

Andrew Davie, on Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:27 PM, said:

My Engine (8MB MPG download) -- The link shows an MPG of my Atari 2600 playfield engine in action. Don't get too excited, as I'm not releasing this -- but one gets a good idea of the current state of the systems.  I am still considering the game designs people have suggested, while I continue to add capabilities and test with a known target.
Cheers
A

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dang, I love having a 5 meg connection. :-)

Anyway, that looks fantastic. It's a little difficult to really appreciate with the MPEG compression coupled with the lack of crisp contrast of VHS tape, but even taking that into consideration it looks like that engine could make for a great game. And personally, I'd love to see a Boulder Dash-esque game on the 2600. :-)

[Andrew Davie]

4MB demo of Boulder Physics -- this shows a short snippet of boulder physics in action.

There are not any plans to release this engine as it is obviously pretty close to Boulder Dash ® -- the copyrighted property of First Star Software. Should I end up actually writing something that is complete enough to consider releasing, then that release would only be done after seeking First Star's permission and involvement.

These engine demos, released as MPG files, should not be treading on any toes, and they enable me to let you all know just how things are looking. Which is, IMHO... freakin' awesome!

Cheers
A

[ZylonBane]

Andrew Davie, on Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:30 AM, said:

There are not any plans to release this engine as it is obviously pretty close to Boulder Dash ® -- the copyrighted property of First Star Software.

Okay, reality check here. NOBODY CARES if someone ports a commercial game to a console of the 2600's generation. Look at the carbon-copy arcade ports the Vectrex and Colecovision are getting. Has anybody sued them? No.

To be concerned about getting sued over a port of Boulder Dash to the 2600 is, at best, unfounded paranoia.

[Spirantho]

ZylonBane, on Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:44 PM, said:

To be concerned about getting sued over a port of Boulder Dash to the 2600 is, at best, unfounded paranoia.

Unfortunately, no, it's a sensible legal position.

You may not like it - I know I don't - but the fact is that many companies are rereleasing their old games on mobile platforms or other systems. This is why Activision, for instance, don't allow distribution of their ROMS, and why Atarigrames insisted that Albert remove the homebrew games which were anything to do with original Atari games (c.f. Joust Pong).

Wish it could be different, but this is a litigious age we live in.

[Haydn Jones]

ZylonBane, on Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:44 PM, said:

Andrew Davie, on Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:30 AM, said:

There are not any plans to release this engine as it is obviously pretty close to Boulder Dash ® -- the copyrighted property of First Star Software.

Okay, reality check here. NOBODY CARES if someone ports a commercial game to a console of the 2600's generation. Look at the carbon-copy arcade ports the Vectrex and Colecovision are getting. Has anybody sued them? No.

To be concerned about getting sued over a port of Boulder Dash to the 2600 is, at best, unfounded paranoia.

First stars permission was sought for the 5200 version releadse recently. I think it is on there website. There buisness is licencing so they cant some let people use it for free, but they seem to be quite adaptable.

Haydn

Edit: Vid 2 just downloaded. Amaizing haw many sepearte elements are moving idepoendantyl onscreen. I remember you saying it was limeted to something like 6 or 7 befor?

[Mindfield]

Andrew Davie, on Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:30 AM, said:

4MB demo of Boulder Physics -- this shows a short snippet of boulder physics in action.

There are not any plans to release this engine as it is obviously pretty close to Boulder Dash ® -- the copyrighted property of First Star Software.  Should I end up actually writing something that is complete enough to consider releasing, then that release would only be done after seeking First Star's permission and involvement.

These engine demos, released as MPG files, should not be treading on any toes, and they enable me to let you all know just how things are looking.  Which is, IMHO... freakin' awesome! 

Cheers
A

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Got that right! I'm amazed at how much that little snipped really does seem to play exactly like BD -- speed at all! I'm quite impressed. Maybe First Star will agree to some sort of licensing and you can actually finish up this particular game and release it. That would be sweet.

What I don't get though is, how is it that dead similar games can get released without any legal repercussions whatsoever? I mean, look at how many thousands (literally!) of Pac Man clones there are out there, yet Namco has never stepped in. Neither has Taito for the thousands of Tetris clones, nor even Popcap Games for the many nearly identical Bejeweled clones there are out there (to use a more recent example). And as long as we're going there, I've seen dozens of Boulder Dash-esque games get released and I've not heard of First Star doing anything about it.

There must be some subtle but distinct point in altering a game's name, appearance, and/or play mechanic where it suddenly falls outside of the realm of IP infringement. Perhaps it's merely a matter of finding out where that line lies and then altering your tech demo enough that it just toes the other side of it. I mean it would really be a shame to see all the work you've put into this BD clone be wasted by remaining purely a proof-of-concept.

Edited by Andrew Davie, Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:52 PM.

[NE146]

I'd just call it "Rockin Run" or something and see if it sticks. Hey, it's 80's clone naming conventions at it's finest!

[Haydn Jones]

Mindfield, on Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:18 AM, said:

Andrew Davie, on Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:30 AM, said:

4MB demo of Boulder Physics -- this shows a short snippet of boulder physics in action.

There are not any plans to release this engine as it is obviously pretty close to Boulder Dash ® -- the copyrighted property of First Star Software.  Should I end up actually writing something that is complete enough to consider releasing, then that release would only be done after seeking First Star's permission and involvement.

These engine demos, released as MPG files, should not be treading on any toes, and they enable me to let you all know just how things are looking.  Which is, IMHO... freakin' awesome! 

Cheers
A

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Got that right! I'm amazed at how much that little snipped really does seem to play exactly like BD -- speed at all! I'm quite impressed. Maybe First Star will agree to some sort of licensing and you can actually finish up this particular game and release it. That would be sweet.

What I don't get though is, how is it that dead similar games can get released without any legal repercussions whatsoever? I mean, look at how many thousands (literally!) of Pac Man clones there are out there, yet Namco has never stepped in. Neither has Taito for the thousands of Tetris clones, nor even Popcap Games for the many nearly identical Bejeweled clones there are out there (to use a more recent example). And as long as we're going there, I've seen dozens of Boulder Dash-esque games get released and I've not heard of First Star doing anything about it.

There must be some subtle but distinct point in altering a game's name, appearance, and/or play mechanic where it suddenly falls outside of the realm of IP infringement. Perhaps it's merely a matter of finding out where that line lies and then altering your tech demo enough that it just toes the other side of it. I mean it would really be a shame to see all the work you've put into this BD clone be wasted by remaining purely a proof-of-concept.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They can usualy get away with it when they fall in to the lame/waste of bandwidth catagory. It makes people go out and get vthe real thing.

Haydn

[Andrew Davie]

Haydn Jones, on Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:50 AM, said:

Edit: Vid 2 just downloaded. Amaizing haw many sepearte elements are moving idepoendantyl onscreen. I remember you saying it was limeted to something like 6 or 7 befor?

Yeah, but since then I've become the best Atari 2600 programmer ever!

[Andrew Davie]

Andrew Davie, on Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:24 PM, said:

Yeah, but since then I've become the best Atari 2600 programmer ever!

Slime in action. With water! And falling boulders!! And diamonds!!!!! -- this short MPG shows the engine in action with slime slowly expanding, water slowly rising from the bottom, all the while the boulder physics is working, with diamond grabbing. It's got 25 minutes still to upload as I write (I have a damn slow connection), but I'm too tired to wait up for it to finish. If it don't load for you, try again soonish.

Cheers
A

[Albert]

Andrew Davie, on Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:04 AM, said:

Slime in action.  With water!  And falling boulders!! And diamonds!!!!! -- this short MPG shows the engine in action with slime slowly expanding, water slowly rising from the bottom, all the while the boulder physics is working, with diamond grabbing.  It's got 25 minutes still to upload as I write (I have a damn slow connection), but I'm too tired to wait up for it to finish.  If it don't load for you, try again soonish.

I must say, as a huge Boulder Dash fan, this is pretty remarkable to see on the 2600. It looks like you have most of the gameplay elements in place, except for the evil butterflies and the warp to the next level after you collect the required number of diamonds. And the two-player, split-screen action is icing on the cake. If you can't release this as Boulder Dash, you really should modify it as required and release something based on this engine.

..Al

[Mindfield]

Albert, on Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:30 AM, said:

I must say, as a huge Boulder Dash fan, this is pretty remarkable to see on the 2600.  It looks like you have most of the gameplay elements in place, except for the evil butterflies and the warp to the next level after you collect the required number of diamonds.  And the two-player, split-screen action is icing on the cake.  If you can't release this as Boulder Dash, you really should modify it as required and release something based on this engine. 

..Al

I'll heartily second that. One way or the other this has gotta be released. Even if it can't be Boulder Dash, you just need to add a few enemies (should be easy -- they all have dead simple movement paths), add the explosions when you drop a boulder on one, add a wall sprite or two, maybe even make that transforming wall that you can drop boulders through to turn them into diamonds. And of course the slime would have to turn into diamonds once it's trapped with nowhere else to expand. :-)

Or maybe change it up a bit and add your own elements. But this is getting to look way too good to just leave it to a tech demo. :-)

[Andrew Davie]

Albert, on Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:30 AM, said:

It looks like you have most of the gameplay elements in place, except for the evil butterflies and the warp to the next level after you collect the required number of diamonds.

I'm desperately short of space in the fixed bank that the particular bankswitching scheme I am using offers. I have heaps of ROM free, just not easily usable ROM. I will spend some days consolidating and rewriting a few things to see how I can improve that. The slime routine is problematic and inefficient and needs a rewrite. The slime changing to diamonds is a difficult one -- I need to know if there is only ever one patch of slime, or multiple disconnected patches. I do have some ideas how to do it. The evil butterflies will come after that -- they should be pretty easy to do... I do need to know if they're left-huggers or right-huggers, though (I guess it doesn't really matter). I expect the magic walls not to be too difficult, either.

I don't think the game looks quite as good on a large TV as it does in the MPGs that I am showing. It's OK, not great. Playability is very good -- for what is there -- but all these additional things are beginning to degrade the speed and performance. There are one or two glitches that have me a bit mistifyed, too. After all, this *is* a '2600 and I'm pushing it quite hard as it is now. I'm pretty much up to the point where I've implemented most of everything I want to and now it's nearly time to abandon the project.

For those pushing for a release (and those doubters that copyright is an issue) -- the point is moot, as there are no cartridges that can support the bankswitch scheme I am using. The release would have to be binary-only for KK and CC owners -- or a new board designed capable of bankswitching in the new method.

In any case, as I said all along -- I'm writing this just for me. The rest of you will have to dream and drool

Cheers
A

[Clint Thompson]

hmm... not downloading for me right.... I'll have to wait but can't wait to see it

[Andrew Davie]

Clint Thompson, on Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:54 AM, said:

hmm... not downloading for me right.... I'll have to wait but can't wait to see it :)

It is still there. It downloads OK for me on different machines. Must be something with your setup.
Cheers
A

[Rob Mitchell]

Andrew Davie, on Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:06 AM, said:

Clint Thompson, on Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:54 AM, said:

hmm... not downloading for me right.... I'll have to wait but can't wait to see it

It is still there. It downloads OK for me on different machines. Must be something with your setup.
Cheers
A

Nice! Downloads worked for me!

Rob Mitchell, Atlanta, GA

[CPUWIZ]

Andrew Davie, on Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:27 PM, said:

My Engine (8MB MPG download) -- The link shows an MPG of my Atari 2600 playfield engine in action. Don't get too excited, as I'm not releasing this -- but one gets a good idea of the current state of the systems.  I am still considering the game designs people have suggested, while I continue to add capabilities and test with a known target.
Cheers
A

You are a very sick man, very nice.

[pmpddytim]

Andrew Davie, on Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:24 AM, said:

Haydn Jones, on Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:50 AM, said:

Edit: Vid 2 just downloaded. Amaizing haw many sepearte elements are moving idepoendantyl onscreen. I remember you saying it was limeted to something like 6 or 7 befor?

Yeah, but since then I've become the best Atari 2600 programmer ever!

I know you were being sarcastic, but I don't think its that far of a strech.

If you never release it thats cool. Its just amazing to see how far someone can push the hardware.

Keep up the good work.

-Tim

[Andrew Davie]

pmpddytim, on Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:07 PM, said:

Andrew Davie, on Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:24 AM, said:

Haydn Jones, on Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:50 AM, said:

Edit: Vid 2 just downloaded. Amaizing haw many sepearte elements are moving idepoendantyl onscreen. I remember you saying it was limeted to something like 6 or 7 befor?

Yeah, but since then I've become the best Atari 2600 programmer ever!

I know you were being sarcastic, but I don't think its that far of a strech.

If you never release it thats cool. Its just amazing to see how far someone can push the hardware.

Keep up the good work.

-Tim

Thanks for that. The scrolling is now 4 times quicker. Goddamn it's awesome. I'm planning to release another MPG on Sunday night featuring working slime and butterflies, water, diamonds and full boulder physics! It's all going so smoothly it feels like one of the best designed programs I've ever written.

If I can get permission from First Star, I'd like to demo a version at the June OKVG show... time and space permitting. Maybe even in person, and let people have a play.

Cheers
A