50 replies to this topic

[Foebane]

Atari 8-Bit by a long shot! Better sound, better graphics, better I/O (Kempston, HONESTLY!), better everything.

And Speccy games are no more playable than Atari games. I don't see what the fuss is all about.

Your thoughts on this?

[Fröhn]

Foebane, on Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:38 PM, said:

Atari 8-Bit by a long shot! Better sound, better graphics, better I/O (Kempston, HONESTLY!), better everything.

[...]

Your thoughts on this?

The Spectrum is a Z80 attached to a framebuffer made from off-the-shelve parts, while the XL is a full blown computer with customchips developed FOR the Atari. Quite obvious which one is better.

[deathtrappomegranate]

Quote

Atari XL/XE vs ZX Spectrum... And the winner is...

Yes, the never-ending C64 vs Atari threads are totally pointless.

The Spectrum's huge success in the UK was due to two factors. Firstly, it was cheap, and secondly, it was the natural upgrade path for ZX80/1 users and coders.

All of this "which was better" stuff is irrelevant and nonsensical.

As a kid, I wanted an Atari, but could only afford a Spectrum. I knew it was crap by comparison. However, the Atari 800 cost £600, the 400 cost £400, and the Spectrum cost £129.95.

There were loads of very playable and enjoyable Spectrum games, though.

The title of this thread makes it very clear.

Maybe we should have "TI-30 vs Enterprise 128..." as well

[Osbo]

Foebane, on Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:38 PM, said:

Atari 8-Bit by a long shot! Better sound, better graphics, better I/O (Kempston, HONESTLY!), better everything.

And Speccy games are no more playable than Atari games. I don't see what the fuss is all about.

Your thoughts on this?

bla bla bla...

[Malc74]

For the love of god, Foebane - it was bad enough putting up with your crap on the World of Spectrum forums without you starting here as well. Are you really so desperately offended by the success of the Speccy over the Atari 8-bits in the UK that you continually have to compare the two and try and justify why the Atari was better? Give it a bloody rest, there are people dying in the world FFS!

[Foebane]

Malc74, on Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:22 PM, said:

For the love of god, Foebane - it was bad enough putting up with your crap on the World of Spectrum forums without you starting here as well.  Are you really so desperately offended by the success of the Speccy over the Atari 8-bits in the UK that you continually have to compare the two and try and justify why the Atari was better?  Give it a bloody rest, there are people dying in the world FFS!

I started this thread because twh/f2 started a thread comparing the Atari 8-Bits to the C64, and I felt the Speccy deserved one.

And how dare you call my opinions "crap" - I could say the same about yours! Besides, I was quite friendly to all of you on the WoS Forums, even if I did let slip my true feelings, once or twice. You call that "crap", do you? I think you're overreacting, BTW.

Erm, as for comparing the two - I notice this is the first time you've posted here. Whereas I was in the minority on the WoS Forums concerning my opinion, I think in turn you'll find you're in the minority here on the Atari 8-Bit board.

Curious last sentence - and what have YOU done about global poverty recently?

[Gunstar]

deathtrappomegranate, on Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:04 PM, said:

Quote

Atari XL/XE vs ZX Spectrum... And the winner is...

Yes, the never-ending C64 vs Atari threads are totally pointless.

The Spectrum's huge success in the UK was due to two factors. Firstly, it was cheap, and secondly, it was the natural upgrade path for ZX80/1 users and coders.

All of this "which was better" stuff is irrelevant and nonsensical.

As a kid, I wanted an Atari, but could only afford a Spectrum. I knew it was crap by comparison. However, the Atari 800 cost £600, the 400 cost £400, and the Spectrum cost £129.95.

There were loads of very playable and enjoyable Spectrum games, though.

The title of this thread makes it very clear.

Maybe we should have "TI-30 vs Enterprise 128..." as well

That's interesting. Over here in the U.S., the Commodore and Atari's were the cheap computers, at least starting with the XL line, though even the 800 was about half the price of the inferior Apple II when they both first came out. I had learned to use computers in high school (secondary school for you Europeans), and it was the Apple II series and some early Macintosh computers that I learned on, so I always wanted an Apple, at least at first. Most of my friends had the C64, and since I couldn't afford an Apple IIe/c since they were around $1000 dollars and my parents refuse to pay that for a computer, I WAS going to get a C64 since it was priced at around $200, about $400 with a disk drive. Then I found out about the Atari 130XE which had twice the memory for a bit less than the C64 (the Atari was $150 at the time for the base computer and the C64 was about $200). The 130XE looked to have all the features and memory of the Apple IIc for a fraction of the cost, even with a disk drive, so I bought the 130XE instead. Luckily, unlike the cheaper Spectrum compared to the Atari, the Atari, though cheaper than the Apple, was much more powerful, so I ended up with a superior machine for less than half the cost after the purchase of a disk drive. My first machine was a ZX81 (TS/1000) and I also thought about upgrading to the speccy, but support for it was non-existant in the states after the TS1000 faded away;Timex got out of the business with the failure of the Spectrum in the U.S. (IIRC it was called the TS/2048 or something like that over here). So I ended up with the cheapest (price-wise; not including the failed and un-supported TS2048) computer which also happened to be (arguably) the best 8-bit computer. I never looked back or regretted it.

[Osbo]

Malc74, on Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:22 PM, said:

For the love of god, Foebane - it was bad enough putting up with your crap on the World of Spectrum forums without you starting here as well.  Are you really so desperately offended by the success of the Speccy over the Atari 8-bits in the UK that you continually have to compare the two and try and justify why the Atari was better?  Give it a bloody rest, there are people dying in the world FFS!

Thank you. I couldn't put it better. I don't like people going around stirring chit.

[Foebane]

I'm not stirring anything. Stay out of this Osbo, you have no idea what happened between me and him, so don't you get involved.

[Osbo]

Foebane, on Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:43 PM, said:

I'm not stirring anything. Stay out of this Osbo, you have no idea what happened between me and him, so don't you get involved.

yeah... you go connect the power into the SIO port...

[emkay]

Foebane, on Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:43 PM, said:

I'm not stirring anything. Stay out of this Osbo, you have no idea what happened between me and him, so don't you get involved.

Hey Guys .... calm down. Differencies in other Boards have to discussed there...

Just go to the hardwarefacts to talk about the machines.
It's just a fact that the A8 was handled in the history like "the worst" machine of that time, and history cannot be changed.

I really would like to know more about the Speccy.... Why not by a discussion here?
By "discussion" not "verbal war"

Edited by emkay, Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:15 PM.

[Foebane]

I don't mean to create hostilities, that's the last thing I want.

I just felt persecuted by Malc74's post, just because at one time on the World of Spectrum boards I made a (admittedly stupid thing to do) drunken post about my true opinions of the Speccy, when the rest of the time I was happily discussing retro stuff with them. I managed to offend almost all of them all with that one post, and I have deeply regretted that ever since.

Then Malc74 sees my (to his eyes) "anti"-Speccy thread, which is just part of a trend I'm CONTINUING, not starting on this board with platform comparison threads, and he jumps down my throat. I was actually trying to find out what Atari users thought of the Spectrum, that's all.

I didn't even have a go at the USERS of the machine, just the hardware itself. They just massively overreacted, as if I had walked into a mosque with boots on or something, or said bad things about Mohammed. This just proves to me how protective Speccy users are of their platform.

But then, some people are funny about their favourite things.

[Gunstar]

It really is comparing apples to oranges here anyway; The Apple II, C64 and Atari lines are rightly comparible becuase they all used the 6502 processor or variant and similiar co-processors to some degree, the speccy used a Z80 processor, so it like comparing a car to a motorcycle, they are both vehicles, but they are very different machines.
Or, if you want, it's like comparing a Mercedes to a Yugo if you like. They were meant for different price ranges and markets, even if they both do get the job done, one is obviously a higher class, not to insult the spectrum, but it just shouldn't be compared to other 8-bits since they use completely different CPU's. Comparing Atari ST/TT/Falcons and Amiga 1000/2000/4000 and Macintosh models is also acceptable do to comparible classes, processors and features, but you generally don't compare any of them to a Silcon Graphics machine either (of the same time period) becuase it out-classes them. Might as well compare the Saturn, PS1, Jaguar and 3DO to the Gamecube, Xbox and PS2 and Dreamcast. Or the 2600/7800 to the SNES and Genesis. While it may have been an innocent attempt at conversation, they just aren't meant to be compared really (XL/XE and Spectrum).

[Heaven/TQA]

gunstar.... it's interesting that you are living in the states and know YUGO? is this car available in the states? i just know this license cars from my trips to former yugoslavia...

[Spector]

Gunstar, on Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:16 AM, said:

It really is comparing apples to oranges here anyway; The Apple II, C64 and Atari lines are rightly comparible becuase they all used the 6502 processor or variant and similiar co-processors to some degree, the speccy used a Z80 processor, so it like comparing a car to a motorcycle, they are both vehicles, but they are very different machines.
Or, if you want, it's like comparing a Mercedes to a Yugo if you like. They were meant for different price ranges and markets, even if they both do get the job done, one is obviously a higher class, not to insult the spectrum, but it just shouldn't be compared to other 8-bits since they use completely different CPU's. Comparing Atari ST/TT/Falcons and Amiga 1000/2000/4000 and Macintosh models is also acceptable do to comparible classes, processors and features, but you generally don't compare any of them to a Silcon Graphics machine either (of the same time period) becuase it out-classes them. Might as well compare the Saturn, PS1, Jaguar and 3DO to the Gamecube, Xbox and PS2 and Dreamcast. Or the 2600/7800 to the SNES and Genesis. While it may have been an innocent attempt at conversation, they just aren't meant to be compared really (XL/XE and Spectrum).

The Spectrum and Atari 8 bits are not a generation apart like that. The fact is, a lot of the best games of the 1980s appeared on the Spectrum. The Atari 8-bits influence in the UK was somewhere near nil. The Spectrum is the equal of any 8-bit machine be it computer, console or whatever in terms of great games, simply because there were so many. I haven't played the Atari 8 bits in depth yet, but I'd doubt that it would have a higher standard of top notch games than the Spectrum. That wouldn't be possible, would it?

[Fröhn]

Gunstar, on Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:16 PM, said:

The Apple II, C64 and Atari lines are rightly comparible becuase they all used the 6502 processor or variant and similiar co-processors to some degree, the speccy used a Z80 processor, so it like comparing a car to a motorcycle, they are both vehicles, but they are very different machines.

Uh? Compatible? No way! There is much more to "compability" than just the CPU.

[www.atarimania.com]

Spector said:

The Spectrum and Atari 8 bits are not a generation apart like that. The fact is, a lot of the best games of the 1980s appeared on the Spectrum. The Atari 8-bits influence in the UK was somewhere near nil. The Spectrum is the equal of any 8-bit machine be it computer, console or whatever in terms of great games, simply because there were so many. I haven't played the Atari 8 bits in depth yet, but I'd doubt that it would have a higher standard of top notch games than the Spectrum. That wouldn't be possible, would it?

Well, the software market isn't restricted to the UK, you know...

It's true the A8 failed miserably in the UK, mainly due to high prices. Few classics originated on the Atari in Europe (Encounter!, Mercenary, Dropzone, International Karate and that's about all) but the situation was different in the US where a number of well-known games were developed on the Atari first until 1985: Boulder Dash, Ballblazer, Rescue on Fractalus!, Archon, Bruce Lee, MULE, Montezuma's Revenge, Fort Apocalypse, Spelunker, Alternate Reality, Seven Cities of Gold...

On the whole, the Spectrum may have a bigger library, more recent programs and maybe better titles overall but the A8 has its share of great games as well, either original or converted. Sure, Atari users could be jealous that MANY cool Spectrum games weren't converted to the platform but, heck, open up and check the great stuff you're missing as well.

I honestly don't give a damn about which platform is best, it's the gaming experience that counts and that could be on any computer or console...

--
Atari Frog
http://www.atarimania.com

[jericho]

Stupid question, of course Spectrum is better! More games, clear commands on the screen. Atari is good for only 1 game: Alternate Reallity, which simply rocks!

[Malc74]

Quote

I don't mean to create hostilities, that's the last thing I want.

Judging by some of your posts on WOS you could have fooled me.

Quote

I just felt persecuted by Malc74's post, just because at one time on the World of Spectrum boards I made a (admittedly stupid thing to do) drunken post about my true opinions of the Speccy...

Which anyone interested can see in this thread.

Quote

...when the rest of the time I was happily discussing retro stuff with them. I managed to offend almost all of them all with that one post, and I have deeply regretted that ever since.

Then Malc74 sees my (to his eyes) "anti"-Speccy thread, which is just part of a trend I'm CONTINUING

No one put a gun to your head and forced you to start the thread, did they?

Quote

not starting on this board with platform comparison threads, and he jumps down my throat. I was actually trying to find out what Atari users thought of the Spectrum, that's all.

For something that you consider to "suck compared to other 8-bit machines" you're pretty damn obsessed with it.

Quote

I didn't even have a go at the USERS of the machine, just the hardware itself.

Poor old Fikey and AA might disagree with you over that statement.

Quote

They just massively overreacted, as if I had walked into a mosque with boots on or something, or said bad things about Mohammed. This just proves to me how protective Speccy users are of their platform.

You basically went onto a Spectrum forum, insulted several of the members for (shock, horror) actually helping you and then effectively stated that the machine they love was a piece of shit!

Quote

But then, some people are funny about their favourite things.

This coming from a guy who effectively joins a Spectrum forum to bang on about the Atari 8-Bits!

The WOS forums are great, but they lack one thing - an ignore button. I'm using my AtariAge one right now. Oh, and please don't PM me again either.

[Spector]

www.atarimania.com, on Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:55 AM, said:

Well, the software market isn't restricted to the UK, you know...

It's true the A8 failed miserably in the UK, mainly due to high prices. Few classics originated on the Atari in Europe (Encounter!, Mercenary, Dropzone, International Karate and that's about all) but the situation was different in the US where a number of well-known games were developed on the Atari first until 1985: Boulder Dash, Ballblazer, Rescue on Fractalus!, Archon, Bruce Lee, MULE, Montezuma's Revenge, Fort Apocalypse, Spelunker, Alternate Reality, Seven Cities of Gold...

On the whole, the Spectrum may have a bigger library, more recent programs and maybe better titles overall but the A8 has its share of great games as well, either original or converted. Sure, Atari users could be jealous that MANY cool Spectrum games weren't converted to the platform but, heck, open up and check the great stuff you're missing as well.--
Atari Frog
http://www.atarimania.com

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Atari 8-bit is rubbish, that would be just the reverse of other comments here. I'm just pointing out that the difference between the two machines is not comparable to the difference between the atari 2600 and the NES/Genesis as one American put it. I'll definitely be playing the Atari 8-bits one day - I am a huge Atari fan after all.

[Spector]

I've just read that thread on WOS with Foebane! I missed it first time around. Pretty rough going, but the result was obvious- no one should be surprised by the reaction.

[Foebane]

Spector, on Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:29 PM, said:

I've just read that thread on WOS with Foebane! I missed it first time around. Pretty rough going, but the result was obvious- no one should be surprised by the reaction.

You mean, "don't diss something when you're surrounded by the something's fans"?

It was only that one time, and that was because of a drunken outburst one night when I got frustrated about things in general. I have since tried to make up, but I not so much touched a nerve as pinched it, apparently.

Check my other posts on the WoS boards if you don't believe me.

[Osbo]

Foebane, on Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:41 PM, said:

Spector, on Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:29 PM, said:

I've just read that thread on WOS with Foebane! I missed it first time around. Pretty rough going, but the result was obvious- no one should be surprised by the reaction.

You mean, "don't diss something when you're surrounded by the something's fans"?

It was only that one time, and that was because of a drunken outburst one night when I got frustrated about things in general. I have since tried to make up, but I not so much touched a nerve as pinched it, apparently.

Check my other posts on the WoS boards if you don't believe me.

oh yeah, that's really mature... you are what? 14 years old?

Edited by Osbo, Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:05 PM.

[Tickled_Pink]

I thought I'd seen the last of these squabbles. We're all older and more mature now, aren't we guys?

I owned both machines. A 16K Issue One Spectrum which has sadly been broken since 1983 and I desperately want to repair it ... tried CPU and ROM but it now looks like a problem with the RAM. Aaaanyway ...

When we had the Spectrum I used to get issues of PC World magazine and drooled at the Atari 800. Thought the Spectrum was, and still is, an amazing computer but the A8 range packed far more power.

HOWEVER. The reason I score the Spectrum so highly is quite simple. It does have off-the-shelf parts (like the ST, which I rate almost as highly) except for the ULA (the issue one had a bug in it which requires the use of the 'spider' - an extra logic chip to correct the issue) but it is a feat of 'amateur' engineering. I am still amazed at just how good the Spectrum is and just how few parts it contains.

While the Atari is undoubtedly a far superior machine technically, the Spectrum for me epitomises the inventiveness of small computer designers in the early eighties. Despite the success of the ZX81, Sir Clive didn't spent millions trying to outdo the likes of Atari with custom chips. He noticed how expensive Atari and Apple machines were in the UK and produced a highly effective system for peanuts. It was aimed at the hobbyist, whereas the A8 were aimed at gaming and the productivity markets.

So yes - the A8 is by far the more powerful system in every department. But the Spectrum is ridiculously powerful considering its launch price and the parts used. The Speccy was a feat of genius.

[The Lurking Horror]

Comparing systems this way is something you'd expect from small children (my father has better specs than yours...)