893 replies to this topic

[Flojomojo]

davidcalgary29, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:05 PM, said:

I'm not sure that they would need to pay for license fees a second time if they redistribute original 5200 software within a unit that is entirely compatible with original 5200 hardware. I'd love to see those original license agreements, as I'm sure they're silent with respect to reissues. And, besides, I'd love to see Super Pac-Man on a TV games unit. 

Is that the way it works? I would think there would be some time limit on such an agreement, or a limitation to a specified number of publication runs. Not that I know how this stuff works ... I'd love to see them, too!

Quote

Question: did Atari pay Activision further licensing fees to include its games on FB2? The licensing fee issue may be one reason why Atari moved away from the "NES-on-a-chip" technology of FB1.

Maybe Activision can take a cut from the sales, instead? Not sure what it has to do with NOAC technology, though. I think that chipset is in the public domain.

Edited by Flojomojo, Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:42 PM.

[Lord Thag]

Hey, I'm just happy we're getting a new Atari CARTRIDGE system. Imagine the homebrew possibilities!

[davidcalgary29]

Flojomojo, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:41 PM, said:

davidcalgary29, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:05 PM, said:

I'm not sure that they would need to pay for license fees a second time if they redistribute original 5200 software within a unit that is entirely compatible with original 5200 hardware. I'd love to see those original license agreements, as I'm sure they're silent with respect to reissues. And, besides, I'd love to see Super Pac-Man on a TV games unit. 

Is that the way it works? I would think there would be some time limit on such an agreement, or a limitation to a specified number of publication runs. Not that I know how this stuff works ... I'd love to see them, too!

Quote

Question: did Atari pay Activision further licensing fees to include its games on FB2? The licensing fee issue may be one reason why Atari moved away from the "NES-on-a-chip" technology of FB1.

Maybe Activision can take a cut from the sales, instead? Not sure what it has to do with NOAC technology, though. I think that chipset is in the public domain.

I don't practice this area of law myself, and am equally in the dark about this issue.

My reasoning with the above was: "if the original licensing agreement included future use of the licensed title on the specified hardware, and Atari (Infogrames) acquired these agreements in its acquisition, then it would be more profitable to design a unit that would encompass the use of the licensed titles. The FB1 unit was cheap to produce, but it couldn't be described as original hardware, and Atari therefore had to pay $$$ they didn't want to pay and had to find the license holders of the original software (an expensive and time-consuming exercise). That's why there weren't any 3rd party titles on the original FB1. With the FB2 being, in essence, a new version of the VCS, Atari doesn't have to go through all of that again."

[krawhitham]

if it is a 5200 system, would it be possible to make it 400/800 compatible

if it is a 400/800 system you would need a keyboard for allot of games, and a sio plug would be nice

Edited by krawhitham, Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:45 PM.

[retrocon]

Ok, my W.A.G:

This is going to be the atari 15600, with Atari System 2 coin-op hardware on a chip.

Then they could include almost any Atari coin-op game pre-86 by including System 1 and pre System 1 hardware support (hardware should be close enough to port easily):

for system 2:

Championship Sprint
Paperboy
Return of the Jedi
Super Sprint
Xybots

for system 1:

Indiana Jones & the Temple of Doom
Marble Madness
Peter Pack Rat
Road Blasters
Road Runner


for pre-system 1:

the centipede hardware games:

Centipede
Millipede
Qwak
Warlords

the Missile Command hardware games:

Missile Command
Missile Attack

Missing any? What do you think?

[krawhitham]

is this a hint

http://www.atariage....84

[Clint Thompson]

That would be soooo awesome!!!

[ATARIeric]

krawhitham, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:00 PM, said:

is this a hint

http://www.atariage....84

sure sounds like a hint to me

[Flojomojo]

davidcalgary29, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:30 PM, said:

Flojomojo, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:41 PM, said:

davidcalgary29, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:05 PM, said:

I'm not sure that they would need to pay for license fees a second time if they redistribute original 5200 software within a unit that is entirely compatible with original 5200 hardware. I'd love to see those original license agreements, as I'm sure they're silent with respect to reissues. And, besides, I'd love to see Super Pac-Man on a TV games unit. 

Is that the way it works? I would think there would be some time limit on such an agreement, or a limitation to a specified number of publication runs. Not that I know how this stuff works ... I'd love to see them, too!

Quote

Question: did Atari pay Activision further licensing fees to include its games on FB2? The licensing fee issue may be one reason why Atari moved away from the "NES-on-a-chip" technology of FB1.

Maybe Activision can take a cut from the sales, instead? Not sure what it has to do with NOAC technology, though. I think that chipset is in the public domain.

I don't practice this area of law myself, and am equally in the dark about this issue.

My reasoning with the above was: "if the original licensing agreement included future use of the licensed title on the specified hardware, and Atari (Infogrames) acquired these agreements in its acquisition, then it would be more profitable to design a unit that would encompass the use of the licensed titles. The FB1 unit was cheap to produce, but it couldn't be described as original hardware, and Atari therefore had to pay $$$ they didn't want to pay and had to find the license holders of the original software (an expensive and time-consuming exercise). That's why there weren't any 3rd party titles on the original FB1. With the FB2 being, in essence, a new version of the VCS, Atari doesn't have to go through all of that again."

That sounds awfully speculative to me. Let's see if anyone wants to disclose any real facts. Something tells me that these deals are kept fairly secret, so as not to diminish the value of IP licensing in the future.

[mos6507]

Ferris, on Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:26 PM, said:

Suggestion - allow Regan to design this one.  He's available and he digs the Flashabck projects.

I'd love to see one that looks like the 2700 with those iPod-like touch-sensitive buttons with the LEDs under them and wireless combo joystick/paddles.

[Flojomojo]

ATARIeric, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:04 PM, said:

krawhitham, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:00 PM, said:

is this a hint

http://www.atariage....84

sure sounds like a hint to me

If this isn't a hint, I'll eat a Missile Command arcade machine. The smaller, "cabaret" version, of course.

Curt Vendel, on Fri Aug 5, 2005 1:01 AM, said:

mos6507, on Thu Aug 4, 2005 10:54 PM, said:

Unfortunately there is no Atari 8-bit core in development right now.

There's not? Hmmmmm.... thats not what I heard

I'm not really an 8-bit afficionado, but what I would like to see on such a unit would be:

The Lucasfilm games (Rescue on Fractalus and Ballblazer)
Llamasoft games (AMC, Gridrunner, Hover Bovver)
The Dreadnaught Factor (by Activision, this game doesn't get enough attention IMHO)
Star Raiders

... that's all I can think of that's reasonably unique to the platform. Anyone have any good review sites? I like the animated little dweebs on the left pane of this review page, any others with a good number of titles?

[davidcalgary29]

Flojomojo, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:55 PM, said:

That sounds awfully speculative to me.  Let's see if anyone wants to disclose any real facts.  Something tells me that these deals are kept fairly secret, so as not to diminish the value of IP licensing in the future.

Well, sure it is!

Much of the fun in this (for me, anyway) is in proposing the outrageous in the process of discerning something that resembles the truth. A number of developers have dropped in on a number of threads to correct particularly fantastic claims, and maybe this one will entice someone from Atari legal, past or present, to shed some light on matters.

[Flojomojo]

davidcalgary29, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:29 PM, said:

Flojomojo, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:55 PM, said:

That sounds awfully speculative to me.  Let's see if anyone wants to disclose any real facts.  Something tells me that these deals are kept fairly secret, so as not to diminish the value of IP licensing in the future.

Well, sure it is!

Much of the fun in this (for me, anyway) is in proposing the outrageous in the process of discerning something that resembles the truth. A number of developers have dropped in on a number of threads to correct particularly fantastic claims, and maybe this one will entice someone from Atari legal, past or present, to shed some light on matters.

Interesting tactic. Are you a trial lawyer, by any chance?

[Laner]

tillenterprises, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 2:33 PM, said:

  Plug and Play arcade Centipede, Millipede, Crystal Castles, Missile Command, X's & O's football, and Marble Madness would be awesome on a trackball version.

Damn, that would rock.

[jaybird3rd]

Flojomojo, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:06 PM, said:

If this isn't a hint, I'll eat a Missile Command arcade machine.  The smaller, "cabaret" version, of course.

Curt Vendel, on Fri Aug 5, 2005 1:01 AM, said:

mos6507, on Thu Aug 4, 2005 10:54 PM, said:

Unfortunately there is no Atari 8-bit core in development right now.

There's not? Hmmmmm.... thats not what I heard

I'm not really an 8-bit afficionado, but what I would like to see on such a unit would be:

The Lucasfilm games (Rescue on Fractalus and Ballblazer)
Llamasoft games (AMC, Gridrunner, Hover Bovver)
The Dreadnaught Factor (by Activision, this game doesn't get enough attention IMHO)
Star Raiders

I hadn't remembered that quote, but you're right ... that's a major hint, and it tells me that it's GOT to be an Atari 400/800 core. There isn't anything else left to do outside of the 7800 (which has already been done with the FB1, albeit using non-authentic hardware) or expensive "niche" platforms like the Lynx/Jaguar. As I've said, that would be the ultimate retro-console: a 64K Atari 8-Bit computer clone, with a batch of repackaged XEGS cartridge games as the initial library of release titles.

Some of the must-have games you mention (particularly Star Raiders) really require keyboard interaction to be playable, but what do you think about this idea: model the FB3 after the Atari 400 (which was a pretty rugged little unit) and build in a low-cost membrane/chicklet keyboard. It wouldn't be any good for long-term touch-typing, but since it's only likely to be used for intermittent keystrokes during gameplay, it would probably do the job. If they save some money "recycling" their FB2 CX-40 stick design (which choosing a 400/800 core would allow them to do), it might make it easier to put a little more money into the FB3 by including an inexpensive keyboard.

[TrekkiELO]

Flojomojo, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:06 PM, said:

ATARIeric, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:04 PM, said:

krawhitham, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:00 PM, said:

is this a hint

http://www.atariage....84

sure sounds like a hint to me

If this isn't a hint, I'll eat a Missile Command arcade machine. The smaller, "cabaret" version, of course.

Curt Vendel, on Fri Aug 5, 2005 1:01 AM, said:

mos6507, on Thu Aug 4, 2005 10:54 PM, said:

Unfortunately there is no Atari 8-bit core in development right now.

There's not? Hmmmmm.... thats not what I heard

I'm not really an 8-bit afficionado, but what I would like to see on such a unit would be:

The Lucasfilm games (Rescue on Fractalus and Ballblazer)
Llamasoft games (AMC, Gridrunner, Hover Bovver)
The Dreadnaught Factor (by Activision, this game doesn't get enough attention IMHO)
Star Raiders

... that's all I can think of that's reasonably unique to the platform. Anyone have any good review sites? I like the animated little dweebs on the left pane of this review page, any others with a good number of titles?

Also from Activision, The Great American Cross Country Road Race and Little Computer People, although I'd really like to see classic Electronic Arts titles on an Atari Flashback 3 8-bit Computer Console with games like

Adventure Construction Set
Archon
Archon II: Adept
The Bard's Tale
D-Bug
M.U.L.E.
Hard Hat Mack
Heart Of Africa
Legacy of the Ancients
Lords Of Conquest
Mail Order Monsters
Murder on the Zinderneuf
One-On-One Basketball
Pinball Construction Set
Racing Destruction Set
Realm Of Impossibility
The Seven Cities Of Gold
Skate Or Die
Skyfox
Ultimate Wizard

much like that C64 DTV had Epyx ones or have another one of those as some were Commodore specific releases!

Signed,

Rick Vendl II

Edited by TrekkiELO, Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:55 PM.

[Feralstorm]

(looking at the 'hints')

Aw poo, I was hoping for a 7800 hardware compatible FB3 that I could attach my Cuttle Cart to.

Either way, I'm ready for the FB3 whenever it comes out.

[Flojomojo]

TrekkiELO, on Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:49 AM, said:

Flojomojo, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:06 PM, said:

ATARIeric, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:04 PM, said:

krawhitham, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 8:00 PM, said:

is this a hint

http://www.atariage....84

sure sounds like a hint to me

If this isn't a hint, I'll eat a Missile Command arcade machine. The smaller, "cabaret" version, of course.

Curt Vendel, on Fri Aug 5, 2005 1:01 AM, said:

mos6507, on Thu Aug 4, 2005 10:54 PM, said:

Unfortunately there is no Atari 8-bit core in development right now.

There's not? Hmmmmm.... thats not what I heard

I'm not really an 8-bit afficionado, but what I would like to see on such a unit would be:

The Lucasfilm games (Rescue on Fractalus and Ballblazer)
Llamasoft games (AMC, Gridrunner, Hover Bovver)
The Dreadnaught Factor (by Activision, this game doesn't get enough attention IMHO)
Star Raiders

... that's all I can think of that's reasonably unique to the platform. Anyone have any good review sites? I like the animated little dweebs on the left pane of this review page, any others with a good number of titles?

Also from Activision, The Great American Cross Country Road Race and Little Computer People, although I'd really like to see classic Electronic Arts titles on an Atari Flashback 3 8-bit Computer Console with games like

Adventure Construction Set
Archon
Archon II: Adept
The Bard's Tale
D-Bug
M.U.L.E.
Hard Hat Mack
Heart Of Africa
Legacy of the Ancients
Lords Of Conquest
Mail Order Monsters
Murder on the Zinderneuf
One-On-One Basketball
Pinball Construction Set
Racing Destruction Set
Realm Of Impossibility
The Seven Cities Of Gold
Skate Or Die
Skyfox
Ultimate Wizard

much like that C64 DTV had Epyx ones or have another one of those as some were Commodore specific releases!

Ooooh, that is a very interesting list. I sometimes forget how awesome EA was back in the 80s. What a difference 2 decades makes.

[Starman]

OMG. If this is an 8-bit system that would be excellent!

I just bought a "new" 800XL, but if there's something more modern, that would just rock.

I wonder....if it does have a cart slot and it could take something like BASIC, would there be a way to use a keyboard on it?

Pinball Construction Set was great. I'm sure EA would allow it to be used for a small license fee.

But Ballblazer....bring it on!

Networked FB3's would be great, but probably difficult to "shoehorn" it into the older code. Hmm...unless.....

Mike

[panamajoe]

whatever it may be:

Make it PAL

please

Edited by panamajoe, Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:05 AM.

[davidcalgary29]

TrekkiELO, on Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:49 AM, said:

Also from Activision...Little Computer People

This was not ported to the A8 machines.

Quote

, although I'd really like to see classic Electronic Arts titles on an Atari Flashback 3 8-bit Computer Console with games like

Adventure Construction Set

The Bard's Tale
D-Bug
Heart Of Africa
Legacy of the Ancients
Lords Of Conquest
Skate Or Die
Skyfox
Ultimate Wizard

These were never ported to the A8 machines, either (with poss. exception of "SkyFox".) EA largely wrote off the A8 machines in 1985, and most of the games they released that year for our machines were...crap.


I think that Atari would have enough in its own archives without having to put in too many 3rd party efforts. I'd like FB3, if it is an A8 console, to have all the excellent arcade ports it released for its computers from 1979-84, as well as some XEGS classics like Crystal Castles and Airball. I'm also hoping that Xari Arena will finally see release as a "5200" entry or an actual computer port.

[ZylonBane]

Flojomojo, on Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:23 AM, said:

Ooooh, that is a very interesting list.  I sometimes forget how awesome EA was back in the 80s.  What a difference 2 decades makes.

Thanks for quoting TWO PAGES of other people's posts, just to tack on a ONE-LINE response. I'm sure everyone really appreciated that.

[Jacob Rose]

tillenterprises, on Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:33 PM, said:

Maybe it will be based on the actual Atari arcade games, not the 2600, 5200, or 7800 ports, but the actual arcade roms.  I was wondering about this, since Jakks did all the Namco arcade games, and there was that arcade Space Invaders collection, nobody ever made a plug and play system for the Atari arcade coin-ops (with the exception of Warlords and Pong on the paddle plug and play).  Plug and Play arcade Centipede, Millipede, Crystal Castles, Missile Command, X's & O's football, and Marble Madness would be awesome on a trackball version.  Warlords, Breakout, Super Breakout, Tempest, and Pong in a paddle version, and Battlezone, Red Baron, Black Widow, and all the other games with a joystick version...

Ooh, vector games! That would be fantastic! Especially if they could squeeze in nice vector emulation. It would require alpha channels and anti-aliasing to capture the intensity interactions and smooth lines of vector graphics.

[www.atarimania.com]

Any reason why some people are advocating the use of the 800 and not the 800XL? Also, good A8 games aren't necessarily pre-1985 titles or from the US...

--
Atari Frog
http://www.atarimania.com

[davidcalgary29]

www.atarimania.com, on Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:33 PM, said:

Any reason why some people are advocating the use of the 800 and not the 800XL? Also, good A8 games aren't necessarily pre-1985 titles or from the US... 

--
Atari Frog
http://www.atarimania.com

I completely agree, but these are the games that casual consumers will recognize the best. As much as I'd like to see something like Zybex, Draconus or even Mental Age in a compilation unit, this type of selection would attract few but diehard enthusiasts, and we are not the core audience for these items.