18 replies to this topic

[Elvis8Atari]

Anyone who knows different sites that have NES, SNES or Atari Time attack videos post the links here.

[NE146]

Sure here's a tool-assisted site.

http://bisqwit.iki.f....cgi?systemid=1

They're not pure speed runs as they are made using emulators and save states. So they're almost "composed" movies in a sense. Doesn't matter to me, they're still very entertaining. And before anyone knocks these.. they should know what's their purpose (to make an entertaining movie for fans of the game to watch) and before they put em down they should try making one themselves. It aint all that easy

[tmont]

Speed Demos Archive
Video Game Ownage

Both of these are speedrun sites, which means that all the videos are done on real consoles. In fact, both of the creators of each of these websites hate TAS's with a passion.

[mojofltr]

Wow!
I have an old Avi screensaver somewhere... it would be cool to set one of these up on it and let it run.

[NE146]

HeckYesIDid, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:15 PM, said:

Both of these are speedrun sites, which means that all the videos are done on real consoles.  In fact, both of the creators of each of these websites hate TAS's with a passion.

Wonder why they hate them when they're totally seperate things alltogether

Kind of like saying you only like reality shows but hate animation & sci-fi

[mojofltr]

NE146, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:43 PM, said:

HeckYesIDid, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:15 PM, said:

Both of these are speedrun sites, which means that all the videos are done on real consoles.  In fact, both of the creators of each of these websites hate TAS's with a passion.

Wonder why they hate them when they're totally seperate things alltogether

Kind of like saying you only like reality shows but hate animation & sci-fi

Some people just hate emulation. Whether it be because they feel cheated that someone else got something for free when they paid, or because they don't feel it is as accurate as a console... I see it a lot.

I, on the other hand, use both to my advantage. I think it's silly to deprive yourself of something so readily available... especially when there are so many more options available there. (ie screengrabs, savestates, etc)

To each his own, I suppose.

[mojofltr]

Hmm, admittedly I haven't gone so far as to read the text, but how do I get a FCM file to load in FCEultra? I have the ROM for it to play, but I don't see an option to load a movie or anything?!

[edit]
I had a wrong version, I guess. Even though the version number is the same, the emulator I was using didn't have the movie options in the file menu at all.

Edited by mojofltr, Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:48 AM.

[NE146]

mojofltr, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:01 PM, said:

NE146, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 6:43 PM, said:

HeckYesIDid, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:15 PM, said:

Both of these are speedrun sites, which means that all the videos are done on real consoles.  In fact, both of the creators of each of these websites hate TAS's with a passion.

Wonder why they hate them when they're totally seperate things alltogether

Kind of like saying you only like reality shows but hate animation & sci-fi

Some people just hate emulation. Whether it be because they feel cheated that someone else got something for free when they paid, or because they don't feel it is as accurate as a console... I see it a lot.

I, on the other hand, use both to my advantage. I think it's silly to deprive yourself of something so readily available... especially when there are so many more options available there. (ie screengrabs, savestates, etc)

To each his own, I suppose.

Right but these aren't meant to be accurate. They're meant to be entertaining. Heck lots of these use moves (like hitting left/right at the same time to create glitches) that couldn't be done on a console.

It's a CREATED MOVIE. It has nothing to do with real thing vs. emulation As a matter of fact if someone went in and painted animation in it, that probably wouldn't be too objectionable. (although that's different from what they want to do of course )

[ZylonBane]

I'm so glad I have no idea what a "time attack" is. Sounds like more stupid Engrish.

[JB]

NE146, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:37 PM, said:

Right but these aren't meant to be accurate. They're meant to be entertaining. Heck lots of these use moves (like hitting left/right at the same time to create glitches) that couldn't be done on a console.

Could with some 3rd-party controllers, actually.


The "cheater" speed runs are interesting in that they show what a hypothetically perfect minimum run is.

ZylonBane, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:48 PM, said:

I'm so glad I have no idea what a "time attack" is. Sounds like more stupid Engrish.

It is an attempt to beat a boss/stage/game in the fastest way possible.
Attacking the timer, so to speak.

Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

[tmont]

JB, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:23 PM, said:

ZylonBane, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:48 PM, said:

I'm so glad I have no idea what a "time attack" is. Sounds like more stupid Engrish.

It is an attempt to beat a boss/stage/game in the fastest way possible.
Attacking the timer, so to speak.

Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

Actually, a time attack refers to a tool-assisted speedrun, hence TAS, which is a run of the game using an emulator with savesates and slow downs. A speedrun is a legitimate run of the game on a regular console. If you want to read about the differences between the two, and why the two communities hate each other for no apparent reason, go here.

Edited by HeckYesIDid, Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:21 PM.

[JB]

HeckYesIDid, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:20 PM, said:

JB, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:23 PM, said:

ZylonBane, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:48 PM, said:

I'm so glad I have no idea what a "time attack" is. Sounds like more stupid Engrish.

It is an attempt to beat a boss/stage/game in the fastest way possible.
Attacking the timer, so to speak.

Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

Actually, a time attack refers to a tool-assisted speedrun, hence TAS, which is a run of the game using an emulator with savesates and slow downs.

You would be mistaken.
The term time attack predates the "cheater" videos by some time.


In point of fact, many games include time attack modes. Several of them even predate the rise of the emulator.
See, for example, the NES title Recca, released in 1992.

Quote

A speedrun is a legitimate run of the game on a regular console. 

Which is also a form of time attack.

Quote

If you want to read about the differences between the two,

I know what the diffrences are. In a nutshell, one is "best played game" and the other is "fastest possible game."

Quote

and why the two communities hate each other for no apparent reason, go here.

One thinks the other is just a bunch of cheaters, the other is annoyed at the one for not appreciating their form of the art.

Edited by JB, Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:44 PM.

[tmont]

Quote

You would be mistaken.
The term time attack predates the "cheater" videos by some time.


In point of fact, many games include time attack modes. Several of them even predate the rise of the emulator.
See, for example, the NES title Recca, released in 1992.

In this context, when we're talking about speedruns, a time-attack (or TAS) refers to the "cheater" emulated runs using savestates and slowdowns. While it might not be historically and technically accurate, through common usage, that's what they're called now. Take a read through of the forums at SDA, and you'll see that this is what "time attack" now means (in these circles). If you tell someone at SDA that they're time attack is really good, they will probably swear at you and tell you it's a #$%ing speedrun.

Quote

(Me)A speedrun is a legitimate run of the game on a regular console. 

(JB)Which is also a form of time attack.

No it isn't, when you're in this context. It's why there are flame wars between the people at bisqwit's site and the people at SDA once every few months or so.

Quote

One thinks the other is just a bunch of cheaters, the other is annoyed at the one for not appreciating their form of the art.

It goes a bit deeper than that, but that's pretty much it. Basically, speedrun people think TAS people are spawns of Satan, and TAS people think speedrun people are too narrow minded. Not everyone on either side falls into these categories, though. It all started when Morimoto tried to pass his Super Mario Bros. 3 TAS off as a legitimate speedrun two years ago. There's been bad blood ever since. I also heard that someone tried to submit a 47 minute 100% TAS of Super Metroid to Twin Galaxies, but it obviously didn't make it past verification.

Edited by HeckYesIDid, Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:22 PM.

[JB]

HeckYesIDid, on Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:19 AM, said:

Quote

You would be mistaken.
The term time attack predates the "cheater" videos by some time.


In point of fact, many games include time attack modes. Several of them even predate the rise of the emulator.
See, for example, the NES title Recca, released in 1992.

In this context, when we're talking about speedruns, a time-attack (or TAS) refers to the "cheater" emulated runs using savestates and slowdowns. While it might not be historically and technically accurate, through common usage, that's what they're called now. Take a read through of the forums at SDA, and you'll see that this is what "time attack" now means (in these circles). If you tell someone at SDA that they're time attack is really good, they will probably swear at you and tell you it's a #$%ing speedrun.

Quote

(Me)A speedrun is a legitimate run of the game on a regular console. 

(JB)Which is also a form of time attack.

No it isn't, when you're in this context. It's why there are flame wars between the people at bisqwit's site and the people at SDA once every few months or so.

I don't particularly care if one set of dipwits has tainted the term for another set of dipwits.
The fact is both are still forms of time attack. As are a number of other gaming challenges.

It's not even a historical issue, as modern games include time attack modes too.


http://en.wikipedia....iki/Time_attack

Quote

Quote

One thinks the other is just a bunch of cheaters, the other is annoyed at the one for not appreciating their form of the art.

It goes a bit deeper than that, but that's pretty much it. Basically, speedrun people think TAS people are spawns of Satan, and TAS people think speedrun people are too narrow minded. Not everyone on either side falls into these categories, though. It all started when Morimoto tried to pass his Super Mario Bros. 3 TAS off as a legitimate speedrun two years ago. There's been bad blood ever since. I also heard that someone tried to submit a 47 minute 100% TAS of Super Metroid to Twin Galaxies, but it obviously didn't make it past verification.

Yah.
I participated in a debate about whether or not the "TAS" showings should count as real play or not. It was pretty stupid.
Hell, I had someone insisting what they were doing was no diffrent than just gluing a bunch of screenshots together...



Personally, I'm more impressed by straight runs without any cheats. Raw skill is more awe-inspiring to me.
But I do acknowledge that a signifigant amount of effort goes into both kinds, and that the "tool-assisted" kind are impressive in their own right.

[tmont]

JB, on Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:19 PM, said:

Personally, I'm more impressed by straight runs without any cheats. Raw skill is more awe-inspiring to me.
But I do acknowledge that a signifigant amount of effort goes into both kinds, and that the "tool-assisted" kind are impressive in their own right.

Yeah, the pure "legit" speedruns are more impressive to me, too. Especially since I did one a couple months ago (Super Mario Bros. 2, in 10:55, which, while impressive, has since been shattered). I think the TAS's in particular are fascinating to watch, especially the RPG's, what with all the luck manipulation, the frame-precision button-pressing: it's definitely time-consuming and a lot of work. I just don't understand why the speedrun community care that some people like playing with emulators. Nobody, outside from a few unsuccessful idiots, who alienate themselves from both groups, ever really tries to pass off a TAS as a legit speedrun.

Edited by HeckYesIDid, Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:00 AM.

[mojofltr]

Wow, I just watched one for Solomon's Key. I could never get past about level 23 on that. I have used many of the jump tricks and hitting the A button to create a block where you can't to my benefit, but the guy who did this thing used them all with such skill! I was laughing out loud as I watched as he made it all look so easy!

[Elvis8Atari]

Thanks alot for the links. Lots of really awesome stuff.

[Shannon]

This was in the FAQ of the tool-assisted web-site.

Quote

Timeattack, Time attack
A time trial or time attack is a mode in some games that keeps track of how fast the gamer can complete levels in the game.

More in (ext) Wikipedia.

Sometimes, tool-assisted speedruns are called timeattacks. This usage has been gradually falling out of favor due to conflicts with established definition.[1]

[RJ]

I saw a Super Mario Bros 5-minute speed run (5:11 actually) on Cinematech recently. It was great to watch; I couldnt believe some of the "close calls"!

I watched some of them back in slo-mo just to see how close they were.

Amazing stuff.