jaybird3rd Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Just out of curiosity, I'd like to know what hardware the FB1 is built around. I've heard that it uses an "NES-on-a-chip" or some such thing, but is it REALLY an NES clone or is it some other off-the-shelf hardware that has similar capabilities to the NES? If available, I'm looking for some information on the CPU, the graphics and sound hardware, and whether or not it's possible to develop new/replacement games for it that use its native capabilities instead of trying (and largely failing) to simulate old Atari hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 930253[/snapback] +1 (and ya it's an NES on a chip nothing more, nothing less.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 13, 2005 Author Share Posted September 13, 2005 Well, I have to agree with the prevailing sentiment about the FB1; it was a disappointing product compared to what I expected (which was REAL Atari 7800 hardware). The main reason I ask is ... if it is an NES on a chip, could you potentially run NES binaries in there, or at least something better than the built-in games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow460 Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 930253[/snapback] How dare you bring up this subject while I'm eating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Rogue Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Well, I have to agree with the prevailing sentiment about the FB1; it was a disappointing product compared to what I expected (which was REAL Atari 7800 hardware). The main reason I ask is ... if it is an NES on a chip, could you potentially run NES binaries in there, or at least something better than the built-in games? 930262[/snapback] You should be able to run the binaries on a real NES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uosipa llamxew Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 930253[/snapback] How dare you bring up this subject while I'm eating! 930286[/snapback] What do you mean?! That's dessert! Sure, remo didn't have a bunt mold, but the shape shouldn't detract from the flavor! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Vendel Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 NTK6578 CPU, Yes it does run all NES software, I have an FB1 test rig we built here in the office with a cartridge port on it. Curt Well, I have to agree with the prevailing sentiment about the FB1; it was a disappointing product compared to what I expected (which was REAL Atari 7800 hardware). The main reason I ask is ... if it is an NES on a chip, could you potentially run NES binaries in there, or at least something better than the built-in games? 930262[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 13, 2005 Author Share Posted September 13, 2005 (edited) NTK6578 CPU, Yes it does run all NES software, I have an FB1 test rig we built here in the office with a cartridge port on it. Curt Wow, thanks for that info Curt! Nice to finally get a SERIOUS response to my query. I'm guessing the NTK6578 is a 6502 clone of some kind with integrated graphics/sound hardware, although I can't find any info about it after a quick Google search ... hmmm ... How difficult is it to wire a cartridge port to the FB1? I've noticed some exposed solder pads on the FB1 mainboard so I'm guessing it would be a procedure similar to the FB2 cartridge port modification. Edited September 13, 2005 by jaybird3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 How difficult is it to wire a cartridge port to the FB1? Or for that matter ANY of the nes-on-a-chip cheapo games out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsoper Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Or for that matter ANY of the nes-on-a-chip cheapo games out there... 930730[/snapback] The benheck.com forums talk a lot about this. The Power Player III has a cart slot for a famicom games so it's fairly easy to play NES games through an adapter or do some surgery for a NES connector. Of course all nes-on-a-chips have slight audio issues that make the purists unhappy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 13, 2005 Author Share Posted September 13, 2005 Or for that matter ANY of the nes-on-a-chip cheapo games out there... 930730[/snapback] The benheck.com forums talk a lot about this. The Power Player III has a cart slot for a famicom games so it's fairly easy to play NES games through an adapter or do some surgery for a NES connector. Of course all nes-on-a-chips have slight audio issues that make the purists unhappy. 930738[/snapback] Audio problems aside, I would love to be able to play NES games on the FB1 if possible; it would be a much better alternative than using creaky old NES consoles (no more "blow-in-the-cartridge-port" nonsense). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Audio problems aside, I would love to be able to play NES games on the FB1 if possible; it would be a much better alternative than using creaky old NES consoles (no more "blow-in-the-cartridge-port" nonsense). 930740[/snapback] Well that would be a good use for the flashback, but I just went for one of the top loader clones, a Yobo FC. Works like a damn charm, was cheap as dirt and saves an awful lot of labor on trying to do your own clone-cart thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsoper Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 Well that would be a good use for the flashback, but I just went for one of the top loader clones, a Yobo FC. Works like a damn charm, was cheap as dirt and saves an awful lot of labor on trying to do your own clone-cart thing. 930756[/snapback] I agree. And soldering on an NES cart connector (from a game genie I guess) would be easier with a front-loader than a clone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) Okay, I did a search for NT6578 (the Novatek 6578) and found some more information; it's basically a 6502 clone with an integrated GPU as I suspected it might be. It's still amazing to me that all that hardware can be reduced to a glop-top the size of a nickel. I wouldn't be surprised if other TV games are built around the same chip, including those crummy Intellivision 10-in-1 controllers (I've got one of those sitting around, too). Edited September 14, 2005 by jaybird3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Audio problems aside, I would love to be able to play NES games on the FB1 if possible; it would be a much better alternative than using creaky old NES consoles (no more "blow-in-the-cartridge-port" nonsense). You know there are 'new' famicom consoles being made and sold now right? Like the Generation NEX ( http://www.playmessiah.com ) and I'm pretty sure there are a couple of others I've seen throughout the years.. like this one on Ebay for example: http://cgi.ebay.com/Top-Loader-Loading-NES...1QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) You know there are 'new' famicom consoles being made and sold now right? Like the Generation NEX ( http://www.playmessiah.com ) and I'm pretty sure there are a couple of others I've seen throughout the years.. like this one on Ebay for example:http://cgi.ebay.com/Top-Loader-Loading-NES...1QQcmdZViewItem 930785[/snapback] I have seen pictures of the NEX, and it looks like a nice system that I'll probably get someday. I was interested in the FB1 mostly because I've gotten all the use I'm going to get out of the built-in games and wanted to do something else with it (besides throw it out). Even if a cartridge port isn't a possibility (and I'll admit that it would be unwieldy anyway since the cartridges are almost as big as the console), a bankswitched multi-ROM in place of the built-in ROM would be cool. No idea if this is possible, though. Edited September 14, 2005 by jaybird3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Hey...Hey...HEY! Now now. It makes a good door stop too! Use it on the doors that the Timex-Sinclair is too big for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zonie Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 How difficult is it to wire a cartridge port to the FB1? Or for that matter ANY of the nes-on-a-chip cheapo games out there... 930730[/snapback] The latest version of the el-cheapo NES now comes with the games on a cartridge. All yours for $49.99 at the closest shopping mall Kiosk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 Hey...Hey...HEY! Now now. It makes a good door stop too! Use it on the doors that the Timex-Sinclair is too big for! 930912[/snapback] Nah, I don't need another doorstop ... that's what my Commodore VIC-20 is for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 I think it would be cool to get the FB1 games dumped onto a NES cart. IS this possible\ Anyone up to the chore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raindog Posted September 15, 2005 Share Posted September 15, 2005 I've been wondering the same thing about the games on the Intellivision famiclone, but as of the last time I looked at a list of all known NES dumps (back in March, I think) there was nothing yet. My understanding of the Intellivision stuff was that they actually used some kind of scripting language on top of the Famiclone hardware, which complicated things somehow and resulted in horrifically bad sound. But my understanding could be lousy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted September 15, 2005 Author Share Posted September 15, 2005 I've been wondering the same thing about the games on the Intellivision famiclone, but as of the last time I looked at a list of all known NES dumps (back in March, I think) there was nothing yet. My understanding of the Intellivision stuff was that they actually used some kind of scripting language on top of the Famiclone hardware, which complicated things somehow and resulted in horrifically bad sound. But my understanding could be lousy. 931673[/snapback] I heard when the Intellivision controllers came out that the developers "worked with the original programmers" and somehow used the original source code in creating the games. This must have been marketing spin because the only game I tried (Night Stalker) was so hideously wrong that I never played my 10-in-1 again. I suppose they didn't have much choice but to use an NES clone; the Intellivision was some strange hardware and repackaging it in a glop-top might not have been practical. I just wish they had done a better job in porting the games. As for the FB2, it seems that there has already been another thread expressing interest in adding an NES cartridge port. I just looked at the FB1 circuit board again, and the top side of it is indeed loaded with solder pads, so I have a suspicion that these are where such a port would be wired. I'd still love to have details on how to do it if Curt is willing to share them with us. A lot of us bought the FB1 mainly to support Infogrames/Atari's entry into the hardware business, and I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to do something new with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted October 1, 2005 Author Share Posted October 1, 2005 (edited) Just wanted to give this a bump and to post a picture of the top of the FB1 board that I finally got around to taking: I used yellow dots to highlight the solder pads that I've been able to identify. There are a total of 86 on this side of the board, which is more than enough for a 72-pin NES cartridge slot (assuming they provide the right connections). Having seen pictures of the FB2 (I don't own one yet) and the locations where its cartridge port pins are wired, I can't help but think that an NES cartridge port could be wired to the FB1 in much the same way. I'm still anxious to get some information on how to do this because I don't want my FB1 to go to waste. Yes, I already know about the Messiah NEX and other Famiclones that have already had cartridge slots wired to them, and I know that most hardcore Atari fans don't like the FB1 and will probably flame me (even more) for wanting to do anything with it except use it for target practice. The thing is, I only intermittently play NES games and only have a few that I really like, and it wouldn't be worth it to me to spend any more money on another console (especially $60 for an NEX). Besides, the budding hardware hacker in me can't stand to see the FB1 gathering dust when there is more potential inside it waiting to be unlocked. EDIT: I know it isn't much, but at this point, I'm willing to offer one of my Space Invaders arcade controllers to the first person who can give me a working list of instructions (or at least a diagram indicating where the cartridge port pins need to be wired). Edited October 1, 2005 by jaybird3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornpipe2 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 (edited) Just wanted to give this a bump and to post a picture of the top of the FB1 board that I finally got around to taking: I used yellow dots to highlight the solder pads that I've been able to identify. There are a total of 86 on this side of the board, which is more than enough for a 72-pin NES cartridge slot (assuming they provide the right connections). Having seen pictures of the FB2 (I don't own one yet) and the locations where its cartridge port pins are wired, I can't help but think that an NES cartridge port could be wired to the FB1 in much the same way. I'm still anxious to get some information on how to do this because I don't want my FB1 to go to waste. Yes, I already know about the Messiah NEX and other Famiclones that have already had cartridge slots wired to them, and I know that most hardcore Atari fans don't like the FB1 and will probably flame me (even more) for wanting to do anything with it except use it for target practice. The thing is, I only intermittently play NES games and only have a few that I really like, and it wouldn't be worth it to me to spend any more money on another console (especially $60 for an NEX). Besides, the budding hardware hacker in me can't stand to see the FB1 gathering dust when there is more potential inside it waiting to be unlocked. EDIT: I know it isn't much, but at this point, I'm willing to offer one of my Space Invaders arcade controllers to the first person who can give me a working list of instructions (or at least a diagram indicating where the cartridge port pins need to be wired). I don't have one so I can't help you, but do you think you can follow the traces from the NES-on-a-Chip by using this document: http://www.tripoint.org/kevtris/Projects/p...nesonachip.html and then you'd need a pinout for the NES cart connector so you'll know which trace corresponds to which signal (pin): http://benheck.com/Downloads/NES_Famicom_Pinouts.pdf (WARNING PDF) The last step, I suppose, is disabling the on-board ROM chip so your cart will be used instead. Without having a board myself to look at I wouldn't even begin to be able to help you there. Edited October 16, 2007 by Hornpipe2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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