19 replies to this topic

[KulorXL]

So I just picked up a 1010, but it's been less than user friendly with me...
For one, one of the bands on the inside is so old, it just fell off. I replaced it with a rubber band, which has proven to be less than perfect...
But the worst part of it is, I can't seem to save anything right. According to the manual, you have to press play and record at the same time, but I end up having to hold down both in order to get it to work. Then, when I try to load it, it gives me one of three errors: 140, 143, or 138. I'm using modern Maxell UR Position Type 1 120-minute tapes, maybe this is why? What sort of tapes can I use with the thing? Is there any special method to getting play and record to stick down at the same time?
If it helps, I plugged the tape into a tape player so I could hear what it was doing, and I got this really high-pitched screeching sound, followed by the actual data, which (I'm no expert) sounded pretty garbled, like TV static...as though it wasn't recording properly...
Any help is appreciated!

Also, I'm doing this on my standard 600XL which just came in, not the Chelco one. Once I borrow a digital camera from my friend, I can post pictures of all the differences.

Edited by KulorXL, Sat Dec 3, 2005 3:23 PM.

[Rybags]

The 1010 was a badly designed unit. The buttons have to exert too much force for the short amount of leverage they have.

Try pressing record, then press the play button until both engage.

Any half decent tapes should be fine, it might be worth giving it a head clean with VCR fluid and a cotton bud.

I've read elsewhere that dental floss can replace drive bands but have never tried it myself.

In any case, it's stone-age technology which would be well replaced with a simple $5 APE interface.

[KulorXL]

Badly designed, indeed...apparantly, I've got one of them Chelco models. Pressing play when record's already down just makes record pop back up, and vise-versa.
I'll try cleaning it, see what that does.
As far as stone-age technology goes...maybe so, but one of the cool things about collecting these old computers is getting them to work and function as stand-alone systems as they did so many years ago. Going back in time and pretending the internet, Windows, and none of that stuff exists; that's where a lot of the fun is, considering the first computer introduced into my family was a decked-out PC with Windows 95 and whatever version of AOL.
So yeah, basically I'm a masochist. If this provides to be as unstable as I keep hearing it is, I'll try disks first, and if all else fails, SIO2PC (or APE, either one) seems like a good option.

[Rybags]

My first 1010 had the button break after a few weeks. Luckily warrantee covered it because I paid $160 for it.

The problem is that the springs are sometimes too strong.

Just pulled mine apart... it seems they "fixed" it by putting screws in place of the plastic tabs that actuate the arms on the tape mechanism.

Edited by Rybags, Fri Dec 2, 2005 3:26 AM.

[KulorXL]

Just tried a prerecorded tape today, and it didn't load. Just noticed, there's white gunk all over the drive heads, so I'm almost positive that's it. Now I just need some cleaner...

[KulorXL]

Just cleaned it. No effect.
Arrrggghhhh, did these things even work back in '82? I'm beginning to wonder...

[Nukey Shay]

KulorXL, on Fri Dec 2, 2005 7:54 PM, said:

Just cleaned it. No effect.
Arrrggghhhh, did these things even work back in '82? I'm beginning to wonder...

...Only -slightly- better than your experience Hence, there's an overload of them at thrifts even to this day.

Something else to worry about:
The drive head might have become mis-aligned over the years (making even pre-recorded programs inaccessable). But I'm more suspect of that rubber band you used (which is probably putting more drag on the spindle and not putting out a consistant speed).

Advice:
Trash the 1010 and get a proper 1050 or 810 disk drive. You'll miss out on some cassette programs, but just think of the asperin you'll save on!

Even better advice:
Get an SIO2PC cable, and you won't even need disks.

[KulorXL]

I've got the 1050, but no disks. Just wanted to get the 1010 working for the sake of getting it working, but I doubt that's gonna happen. Ah well, at least it looks cool sitting with the rest of my XL stuff.
For the sake of saving forum space, I'll just ask this here: how do I get disk images from my PC 5.25 floppy drive to my Atari 1050? I need to burn a copy of DOS so I can use the durned thing...then, I shouldn't really need a SIO2PC, since I can just use my PC to archive the disk images.

[Mindfield]

It's been like 20 years since I used a tape drive, but even back then I remember hearing that using long-play tapes was asking for trouble as the mylar was too thin and tended not to hold magnetic data that well. I used to buy those strictly-for-computer 15-30 minute tapes and they always worked well for me.

[KulorXL]

Something struck me as I was recording my Atari saving something onto tape for my friend to hear.
Couldn't I just plug my Atari into my PC, record the sound of it saving, and then plug a headphones-to-tape adaptor into my line out port and play the file back? I'm so gonna try that.
Then maybe I'll finally have a reliable method of data storage for my Atari...

[Rybags]

It won't work. The SIO port has audio in capability but the sound is just mixed with what POKEY generates, and the computer has no way to monitor or control it.

The tape signals are converted from tones to TTL 0's and 1's by the 1010. The computer has no built in means to process these tones, or any other external audio.

Best bet would be to invest $5 in parts and a few hours build time for an SIO2PC/APE interface.

Forget tapes, if you want to remeniss the old load times, running APE in standard 1050 speed mode should be more than enough.

Edited by Rybags, Sat Dec 3, 2005 11:26 PM.

[KulorXL]

It's not the slow times I want, it's the stand-alone that I want (if this works with my PC, I can use an MP3 player for the recording/playing). If I used a headphone/tape adaptor, the sound would still be going through the 1010 and thus be converted. Or are you saying it's saving more than it's playing during the process of saving?

[KulorXL]

It works! Fwahaha! It works like a charm, too. This is so perfect...
Now, just one last thing: how do I get disk images from my PC 5.25 floppy drive to my Atari 1050? I need to burn a copy of DOS so I can use the durned thing...then, I shouldn't really need a SIO2PC, since I can just use my PC to archive the disk images.

[Rybags]

There are programs around to write Atari disks with a 5.25 drive but they work best for double-density (ie - 180K, 256 byte sectors).

I've tried them with single density but with very little success.

An APE cable is definately the best choice there.

+ you are probably the only person ever to use a MP3 player in such a way.

[KulorXL]

It's strange that they wouldn't include that as an option for such a program...that and single-density modes you'd think would be essential for 400/800 and XL fans.
And the tape drive...ahh, I love being an innovater...I'll migrate this method to an MP3 player once I can get one. Problem with that is, if it records in the MP3 format (like you'd expect an MP3 player to do), then it's no good; MP3 involves way too much quality loss to be depended on for data storage, you may as well use tapes...I hear they still make ones that record in a raw format, but they're slowly being replaced by MP3 recorders...

[Rybags]

The lack of other formats (single, enhanced) is due to hardware. The 180K format is easily supported since it's similar to the old IBM 80 track 360K standard.

From memory, the only way I could get it to work was to format a never used before disk on the IBM drive, then write to it with the Atari.

[ijor]

KulorXL, on Sun Dec 4, 2005 11:59 PM, said:

Now, just one last thing: how do I get disk images from my PC 5.25 floppy drive to my Atari 1050?

Writing back images with a PC drive is more complicated than you might think …

It mainly depends on the density of the image, and the type of 5.25 drive you have. If you want to write back double or enhanced density images, and your PC drive is an older 40 tracks one (360K), then it is usually ok. Otherwise, it is complicated at best … But seems you like complicated ways to do things, so it might be ok for you

"Rybags" said:

The lack of other formats (single, enhanced) is due to hardware. The 180K format is easily supported since it's similar to the old IBM 80 track 360K standard.

No, in most cases it isn’t a hardware issue, but a software one. In first place, medium and double densities are virtually the same from the point of view of the hardware. There are some PC controllers that have problems with FM encoding (single density), but most modern ones fully support it.

[KulorXL]

ijor, on Mon Dec 5, 2005 9:04 AM, said:

Writing back images with a PC drive is more complicated than you might think …

It mainly depends on the density of the image, and the type of 5.25 drive you have. If you want to write back double or enhanced density images, and your PC drive is an older 40 tracks one (360K), then it is usually ok. Otherwise, it is complicated at best … But seems you like complicated ways to do things, so it might be ok for you

That would probly involve a bit of coding, then; my drive's one of the "new", 1.2MB ones. Details I'm not sure of, since I got it from a friend.
Actually, once I get a bit farther into Java, I might be able to do something for that...if Java can even do that...I'll have to discuss it with my teacher. That'd make a great final project.
For a quicker solution, I might end up building a SIO2PC and using it with my 1050 to burn a DOS disk, or buy a DOS disk somewhere...once I get that, isn't there an HDD for the Atari that I could use (or an IDE2SIO, or something freakish like that?) to backup the disk images?

[ijor]

KulorXL, on Mon Dec 5, 2005 1:48 PM, said:

That would probly involve a bit of coding, then; ... Actually, once I get a bit farther into Java,

Coding is of course involved. But it doesn't look precisely like a job for java.

Quote

my drive's one of the "new", 1.2MB ones.

This is not a "coding" issue. With an HD drive you must use virgin disks as they can from factory, and they must be the unformatted ones, pre-formatted won't work. Or otherwise bring the disk back to the virgin state. The problem is that there is no way to do that with a drive. Ideally you should use a degausser, which is an expensive equipment. Some people report some success using a big magnet, or a bulk eraser.

[KulorXL]

I see, I see...
That leaves me with three options, then (I think)...
1) Get the right sort of PC 5.25 floppy drive
2) Get a 1050 Happy drive
3) APE/SIO2PC!
I think I'll go with the last one. I'da never guessed that tapes would be easier to get working than floppies...