18 replies to this topic

[DracIsBack]

After a few years, I've dug out my old Atari XE cartridge of KARATEKA and been playing it the last few days.

What a fun game ... and so much better than that acursed 7800 version that IBID INC. butchered.

[MrFish]

Man, Karateka is one of my favorite overall games for the 8-bit systems. It had so many great things going for it. I can remember playing it for so many hours, and after a while it would seem like the characters were actually real. The realism was astounding, and I still marvel at it today.

I looked at the c-64 version recently and, even though the graphics are almost exactly the same, it's amazing the difference that the better sounds on the atari make in the overall feel. The c-64 versions punches are so light sounding that it doesn't feel like fighting. The music is also cheesy compared to the a-8. I think they dropped the ball, considering such a capable sound system.

---

Actually, not to change the subject, it really shows the important roll that sound plays in games. You can have great graphics and if the sounds aren't there it can make a big difference. I know this has been a big concern for 7800 folks. Really many games are very well done on the 7800, but the sound effects have lessened their greatness.

I have played games on the nes and turned the sound off to prove this. The graphics alone just don't make it. I've even imagined them with tia sounds and it's a huge difference. Some nes games almost stand on sound alone. It truely had a capable sound system. The nes' might came from the combination of sound and graphics.

I think the diffences are minimal when comparing the two systems without the sound issue. Using pokey really improves the games. Commando is great. Can you imagine Ninja Golf with nice pokey music and effects. It would have been killer (no pun intended).

The biggest weakness for the nes, imo, was that there weren't many games for adults (and I don't mean xxx). I prefer the 8-bits mainly for this reason. It's a more mature system, and has more depth.

Actually, some games for the 7800 have really nice tia sounds and music, and I am amazed at the quality stuff that was done. It is these games that make the 7800 enjoyable. Also, it must be great to be able to play all those 2600 games. I think this adds a lot of value to the system.

---

Getting back to Karateka, they really could have done a great version on the 7800. They could have taken the graphics exactly (pixel-wise), and enhanced it with tasteful colors. I was so interested to check out this version when I got into emulation (never saw it before, exept for magazine shots where it looked fine). Man was I disappointed. I thought it would be an improvement.

I would like to see Karateka done the way p.o.p. for the Mac was done (of course done on a system that can do it). This version was the original one J.M. did for p.o.p., and it was awsome. Much better than for any other system. Even the black and white version was awasome, and I mean black and white as in: black & white pixels only. J.M. was a pixel master if there ever was one. If Karateka were done like this, it would be frickin' amazing (did they ever do a version of karateka for the macs?).

I wonder how J.M. feels working in the land of 3-D, anti-aliased, mip-mapped, transparent, shaded, ambient-light, etc., etc., etc. graphics?

Edited by MrFish, Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:44 PM.

[remowilliams]

MrFish, on Fri Dec 9, 2005 6:45 PM, said:

Getting back to Karateka, they really could have done a great version on the 7800

That's what really goes the extra mile into making the 7800 version such a horrendous piece of crap.

[MrFish]

remowilliams, on Fri Dec 9, 2005 6:52 PM, said:

MrFish, on Fri Dec 9, 2005 6:45 PM, said:

Getting back to Karateka, they really could have done a great version on the 7800

That's what really goes the extra mile into making the 7800 version such a horrendous piece of crap.

Has anyone actually played through this version? Is there anything good or interesting about it at all? I've only heard bad, and could never get past the crummy control scheme.

[Fres]

Does anyone use the joystick for this game on the XL/XE? I remember buying Karateka on disk back in the 80's. I couldn't stand the joystick controls. If I remember correctly, you had to hold longer on the button to kick -- shorter to punch, or something like that. I did like the keyboard option, though -- six different buttons for kicking/punching. I don't think they're even documented in the XE cart version (QW, AS, ZX, and left/right arrows, space to change stance, B to bow). I think you have to press "K" or ctrl-k or something like that to get into keyboard mode. This was one instance where it was truly a shame that the CX40 had only one button (SpyHunter is another).

[Tempest]

MrFish, on Fri Dec 9, 2005 7:39 PM, said:

remowilliams, on Fri Dec 9, 2005 6:52 PM, said:

MrFish, on Fri Dec 9, 2005 6:45 PM, said:

Getting back to Karateka, they really could have done a great version on the 7800

That's what really goes the extra mile into making the 7800 version such a horrendous piece of crap.

Has anyone actually played through this version? Is there anything good or interesting about it at all? I've only heard bad, and could never get past the crummy control scheme.

I tried. I made it to the falcon in the basement, but the collision detection seemed really off and I couldn't hit the damn thing no matter how I timed it (I've beaten the Apple II version numerious times, so I know how to do it).

Tempest

[MrFish]

ponderosa, on Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:29 AM, said:

Does anyone use the joystick for this game on the XL/XE?  I remember buying Karateka on disk back in the 80's.  I couldn't stand the joystick controls.  If I remember correctly, you had to hold longer on the button to kick -- shorter to punch, or something like that.  I did like the keyboard option, though -- six different buttons for kicking/punching.  I don't think they're even documented in the XE cart version (QW, AS, ZX, and left/right arrows, space to change stance, B to bow).  I think you have to press "K" or ctrl-k or something like that to get into keyboard mode.  This was one instance where it was truly a shame that the CX40 had only one button (SpyHunter is another).

It takes a little getting used to, but I like the joystick control quite well, especially considering the number of moves it accomodates. Only thing I remember is, it tore the crap out of your hand when challenging the tougher opponents, because you needed so much back and forth movement to lure the guys in. This caused the CX40's short stick to dig into the heel of your hand (unless maybe you had real small hands). Of course it wasn't the only game to cause that to happen.

I recall using the keyboard option on the real atari, and liking it quite well. It was definitely less painful.

I am actually just using a joypad with a8wp, and having a blast. Ahhh, no pain, and all the fun of pounding on those poor helpless grunts.

(note: for the "What Classic Games..." thread, I think a nice version of Prince of Persia could be done in the style of Karateka. Maybe even using some of the same graphics with modifications.)

[Random Terrain]

I played it on the Commodore 64 back then and it was pretty fun. I thought the Atari 7800 version would be even better, but noooooooo.

[Gunstar]

I've never seen the C64 version, but 20 years ago a friend and I, he having an Apple IIe and me with the 130xe compared them side by side and they are nearly identical in every way except that the Atari has better sound. The 7800 version is crap. Can't go wrong with the Apple&Atari versions, but don't go buy an Apple just for this game when the Atari version is as good and there are so many more good games on the Atari that put the Apple to shame.

[neopeius]

Back in '86, my brother spent all day and into the night and back almost into daytime trying to beat this game. There's definitely a delay on the attacks, but you just allow for them.

He finished at about 2:30AM. It was the first time we lost him to a video game, but it would not be the last...

[DracIsBack]

MrFish, on Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:39 AM, said:

remowilliams, on Fri Dec 9, 2005 6:52 PM, said:

MrFish, on Fri Dec 9, 2005 6:45 PM, said:

Getting back to Karateka, they really could have done a great version on the 7800

That's what really goes the extra mile into making the 7800 version such a horrendous piece of crap.

Has anyone actually played through this version? Is there anything good or interesting about it at all? I've only heard bad, and could never get past the crummy control scheme.

I've made it to Akuma and it still sucks. Biggest gripes in the 7800 version:

1. Awful control. hit the button, wait two seconds.
2. Awful collision detection (as Tempest noted)
3. Pared down graphics. The 7800 is supposed to have better graphics than the XE yet the characters, the backdrops and the general game elements look more simple.
4. Missing game elements such as the gate, the racing, and the intermissions are simplified.
5. The hawk looks like a drunken duck

[MrFish]

DracIsBack, on Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:30 AM, said:

5. The hawk looks like a drunken duck

Ha, ha, ha, ha. Any screenshots of this?

[NightSprinter]

Not sure about the hawk, but I just read on WikiPedia (so correct me if the information I'm posting is wrong) and it stated if you ran to Mariko without dropping your battle stance you get an infamous "boot to the head" and die in a single blow. That's gotta suck, approaching her the wrong way and getting her foot implanted into your head.

[remowilliams]

NightSprinter, on Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:51 PM, said:

Not sure about the hawk, but I just read on WikiPedia (so correct me if the information I'm posting is wrong) and it stated if you ran to Mariko without dropping your battle stance you get an infamous "boot to the head" and die in a single blow.  That's gotta suck, approaching her the wrong way and getting her foot implanted into your head.

LOL, yeah that is true if I remember correctly. I think it happened to me the first time around

[NightSprinter]

Yeah, reminds me of what this guy said on an article about the Apple ][ version: "If she could have THAT powerful of an attack, then why the hell couldn't she save herself?". I actually have to agree with the guy on that: if Mariko-dono could kill your character with a single high-kick, why couldn't she do that to Akuma and all the other guards?

Also, I noticed this was the FIRST time the name "Akuma" appeared in a martial-arts game before the debut of Street Fighter Zero/Alpha.

[ijor]

NightSprinter, on Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:16 PM, said:

"If she could have THAT powerful of an attack, then why the hell couldn't she save herself?".  I actually have to agree with the guy on that: if Mariko-dono could kill your character with a single high-kick, why couldn't she do that to Akuma and all the other guards?

When they are angry, women are capable to exercise special unique strength against husbands and boyfriends. It can be several times more powerful than against anybody else. Don’t you know that?

But yes, it's a nice fun detail in this superb game.

[DracIsBack]

NightSprinter, on Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:16 AM, said:

Yeah, reminds me of what this guy said on an article about the Apple ][ version: "If she could have THAT powerful of an attack, then why the hell couldn't she save herself?".  I actually have to agree with the guy on that: if Mariko-dono could kill your character with a single high-kick, why couldn't she do that to Akuma and all the other guards?

LOL ... her and Colonial Cook from 7800 Ikari Warriors should hang out. I always wondered why that 30 foot guy didn't step up his kidnappers! LOL

[miker]

Well it seems that gamemakers should think twice before doing mistakes as mentioned above.

[highendsystems]

remowilliams, on Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:58 PM, said:

NightSprinter, on Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:51 PM, said:

Not sure about the hawk, but I just read on WikiPedia (so correct me if the information I'm posting is wrong) and it stated if you ran to Mariko without dropping your battle stance you get an infamous "boot to the head" and die in a single blow.  That's gotta suck, approaching her the wrong way and getting her foot implanted into your head.

LOL, yeah that is true if I remember correctly. I think it happened to me the first time around

HaHa! Yeah she kicked me the first time I "almost" won. You must RUN into her arms,
getting too close while in a combat stance = death.