46 replies to this topic

[walter_J64bit]

Ok now I've got a working XF551 now about that 360k fromat. Is there any way for me to put commercial games (like a disk Image) on a disk when using the 360K format?

[Rybags]

Most commercial games use a custom multi-stage boot loader, plus they don't usually adhere to DOS standards.

So, it would be unfeasible in most cases.

But, most games, even many which access the disk after running, have been converted to files anyway, and will work with most DOSes and formats.

[walter_J64bit]

Rybags, on Thu Feb 23, 2006 10:49 PM, said:

Most commercial games use a custom multi-stage boot loader, plus they don't usually adhere to DOS standards.

So, it would be unfeasible in most cases.

But, most games, even many which access the disk after running, have been converted to files anyway, and will work with most DOSes and formats.

Oh, Ok.

Now where can I get this "The XF551 Enhancer"?

[JR>]

walter_J64bit, on Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:35 PM, said:

Now where can I get this "The XF551 Enhancer"? 

I would suggest you uprade the ROM in your XF551 to one of the Hyper-XF Roms. It corrects some of the problems the drive has with detecting density and it also supports higher Data transfer rates.

There is also a Hyper-FX version that allows you to use a 720K 3.5 inch mechanism in the drive. I've read that using that version, there is a mode that allows you to put 4 complete disk images on one 720K disk and switch between them, as if you were swapping the real floppies. One of my XF551's has this, but I have never tested the 4 in 1 disk mode on it.

[walter_J64bit]

JR>, on Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:57 PM, said:

walter_J64bit, on Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:35 PM, said:

Now where can I get this "The XF551 Enhancer"? 

I would suggest you uprade the ROM in your XF551 to one of the Hyper-XF Roms. It corrects some of the problems the drive has with detecting density and it also supports higher Data transfer rates.

There is also a Hyper-FX version that allows you to use a 720K 3.5 inch mechanism in the drive. I've read that using that version, there is a mode that allows you to put 4 complete disk images on one 720K disk and switch between them, as if you were swapping the real floppies. One of my XF551's has this, but I have never tested the 4 in 1 disk mode on it.

Any links?

[doctorclu]

walter_J64bit, on Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:27 PM, said:

JR>, on Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:57 PM, said:

walter_J64bit, on Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:35 PM, said:

Now where can I get this "The XF551 Enhancer"? 

I would suggest you uprade the ROM in your XF551 to one of the Hyper-XF Roms. It corrects some of the problems the drive has with detecting density and it also supports higher Data transfer rates.

There is also a Hyper-FX version that allows you to use a 720K 3.5 inch mechanism in the drive. I've read that using that version, there is a mode that allows you to put 4 complete disk images on one 720K disk and switch between them, as if you were swapping the real floppies. One of my XF551's has this, but I have never tested the 4 in 1 disk mode on it.

Any links?

LOL! No kid!

I am not sure what I want to do about the XF551.. I have two and they are both dead.

As for me I might try to get a percom drive working.

At the moment I am using a Rana 1000 and some 1050 drives.

[JR>]

walter_J64bit, on Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:27 PM, said:

Any links?

This has lots of useful stuff for the XF551 including the Hyper-XF rom images:

 XFTOOLS.ZIP   150.81K   223 downloads

If you Google Hyper-XF in groups, you will find some old posts in C.S.A.8bit discussing Hyper-XF. Other than that there isn't a whole lot of info. Most of the documentation is in Polish in the QMEG OS documentation. A bad translation of that can be found in the above Google search.

[jaybird3rd]

JR>, on Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:21 PM, said:

This has lots of useful stuff for the XF551 including the Hyper-XF rom images:

If you Google Hyper-XF in groups, you will find some old posts in C.S.A.8bit discussing Hyper-XF.  Other than that there isn't a whole lot of info.  Most of the documentation is in Polish in the QMEG OS documentation.  A bad translation of that can be found in the above Google search.

Wow, thanks for posting that! I'm running my XF551 with a 3.5-inch drive and Bob Woolley's public-domain modified ROM (with some subsequent changes he made to correct some of the density detection issues), but being able to switch between disk images on one disk would be great! It always bugs me that I can only use the first 90K of my 720K disks with a lot of commercial software, especially for games that were originally on flippies (which means two 3.5-inch disks and LOTS of wasted space).

[walter_J64bit]

JR>, on Fri Feb 24, 2006 6:21 PM, said:

walter_J64bit, on Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:27 PM, said:

Any links?

This has lots of useful stuff for the XF551 including the Hyper-XF rom images:

 XFTOOLS.ZIP   150.81K   223 downloads

If you Google Hyper-XF in groups, you will find some old posts in C.S.A.8bit discussing Hyper-XF. Other than that there isn't a whole lot of info. Most of the documentation is in Polish in the QMEG OS documentation. A bad translation of that can be found in the above Google search.

WOW, but I have no way to update XF551 rom.

[doctorclu]

walter_J64bit, on Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:29 AM, said:

WOW, but I have no way to update XF551 rom.

Certainly you know a Jag fan out there with an eprom burner you can bum off of to burn you a new prom for it. If you don't know, I know two people that could probably assist.

Me, I need to get off my lazy ass and either get the one working for my Atari 800, or just get another.

[jaybird3rd]

walter_J64bit, on Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:29 PM, said:

WOW, but I have no way to update XF551 rom.

I've got a few 2764s and a programmer and could probably burn you an EPROM for a nominal cost (I'll even test it in my XF551 before I ship it). PM me if you're interested.

[walter_J64bit]

doctorclu, on Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:32 AM, said:

walter_J64bit, on Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:29 AM, said:

WOW, but I have no way to update XF551 rom.

Certainly you know a Jag fan out there with an eprom burner you can bum off of to burn you a new prom for it. If you don't know, I know two people that could probably assist.

Me, I need to get off my lazy ass and either get the one working for my Atari 800, or just get another.

Hmmm, JaySmith2000 has one he did put out FFL betas.

[walter_J64bit]

jaybird3rd, on Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:38 AM, said:

walter_J64bit, on Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:29 PM, said:

WOW, but I have no way to update XF551 rom.

I've got a few 2764s and a programmer and could probably burn you an EPROM for a nominal cost (I'll even test it in my XF551 before I ship it). PM me if you're interested.

Cool! I'll get to you soon on this!

[walter_J64bit]

I didn't want to start a new XF551 topic but has anyone made full use of 1.2MB 5.25" mech with the XF551?

[ijor]

walter_J64bit, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 12:28 AM, said:

I didn't want to start a new XF551 topic but has anyone made full use of 1.2MB 5.25" mech with the XF551? 

It would be quite complicated. Even for SD/DD disks, it won't work just like that.

If you want to use an HD drive, then it would be much easier to use a 3.5 one.

[warerat]

walter_J64bit, on Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:43 AM, said:

jaybird3rd, on Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:38 AM, said:

walter_J64bit, on Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:29 PM, said:

WOW, but I have no way to update XF551 rom.

I've got a few 2764s and a programmer and could probably burn you an EPROM for a nominal cost (I'll even test it in my XF551 before I ship it). PM me if you're interested.

Cool! I'll get to you soon on this!

I believe the XF551 has A12 hardwired low so you can only use 4K. I have a CSS ROM in my 3.5" XF551 that does ultraspeed and fixes bugs on a 2732.

[warerat]

ijor, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 4:22 PM, said:

walter_J64bit, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 12:28 AM, said:

I didn't want to start a new XF551 topic but has anyone made full use of 1.2MB 5.25" mech with the XF551? 

It would be quite complicated. Even for SD/DD disks, it won't work just like that.

If you want to use an HD drive, then it would be much easier to use a 3.5 one.

Can the 1772 handle that? What's the clock rate you'd have to use for HD? 16 MHz?

[ijor]

warerat, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 12:44 PM, said:

ijor, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 4:22 PM, said:

If you want to use an HD drive, then it would be much easier to use a 3.5 one.

Can the 1772 handle that? What's the clock rate you'd have to use for HD? 16 MHz?

Please note that I didn’t mean that would be easy. Just that it would easier, or less difficult if you want, than using a 5.25 HD drive.

Unless that all you want is to use a modern 3.5 HD drive in DD mode. That wouldn’t be a problem, except for changing the drive ID because modern drives are jumper-less.

Yes, clock should be 16 Mhz. Some, probably most, 1772 can support that much overclocking. And there is a version that Atari used in later ST models, nicknamed the Ajax, that is guaranteed to work at 16 Mhz.

You would still have some complications. A custom ROM, the higher clock interface, etc. And this is assuming the drive’s CPU can cope with the faster transfer rate at all (which I don’t know).

But with a 1.2MB drive, you’ll have all these complications plus some more.

[jaybird3rd]

ijor, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 12:17 PM, said:

Please note that I didn’t mean that would be easy. Just that it would easier, or less difficult if you want, than using a 5.25 HD drive.

Unless that all you want is to use a modern 3.5 HD drive in DD mode. That wouldn’t be a problem, except for changing the drive ID because modern drives are jumper-less.

That's unfortunately true, but I've found that the traces for the ID jumpers are still present on even brand-new 1.44MB floppy drive mechs. After upgrading the ROM in my '551 last year, I bought a Sony MPF920 drive mech and got it to work by simply moving a resistor and cutting a trace on the board. Here's a picture for anyone who's interested:

The only problem after that was trying to format new HD media for 720K, but this was easily remedied by soldering shut the MPF920's density switch (which leaves it in 720K mode all the time). It sometimes takes one or two extra attempts to get a clean format on a HD disk, but they do seem to work reliably after that.

Edited by jaybird3rd, Sun Mar 5, 2006 12:42 PM.

[jaybird3rd]

warerat, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 11:40 AM, said:

I believe the XF551 has A12 hardwired low so you can only use 4K.  I have a CSS ROM in my 3.5" XF551 that does ultraspeed and fixes bugs on a 2732.

I don't think that's the case; the Hyper-XF ROMs (linked to elsewhere on these boards) are both 8K, as was the dump that I made of Atari's original ROM (which I then modified with Bob Woolley's code for 720K support).

[ijor]

jaybird3rd, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 1:30 PM, said:

That's unfortunately true, but I've found that the traces for the ID jumpers are still present on even brand-new 1.44MB floppy drive mechs.

Yes, of course, what I meant is that the jumpers are not solderless. If you prefer, you can also avoid messing with the drive, and perform a twist in the cable as in the PC.

Quote

The only problem after that was trying to format new HD media for 720K, but this was easily remedied my soldering shut the density switch in the MPF920.

Or you can just cover the density hole in HD disks.

[warerat]

jaybird3rd, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 6:33 PM, said:

warerat, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 11:40 AM, said:

I believe the XF551 has A12 hardwired low so you can only use 4K.  I have a CSS ROM in my 3.5" XF551 that does ultraspeed and fixes bugs on a 2732.

I don't think that's the case; the Hyper-XF ROMs (linked to elsewhere on these boards) are both 8K, as was the dump that I made of Atari's original ROM (which I then modified with Bob Woolley's code for 720K support).

I just verified on my XF551 that A12 is indeed strapped to ground, unless yours has been modified somehow. The files are 8K, but there is only 4K of code (look at the top half from $1000-$1FFF).

[warerat]

ijor, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 6:17 PM, said:

warerat, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 12:44 PM, said:

ijor, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 4:22 PM, said:

If you want to use an HD drive, then it would be much easier to use a 3.5 one.

Can the 1772 handle that? What's the clock rate you'd have to use for HD? 16 MHz?

Please note that I didn’t mean that would be easy. Just that it would easier, or less difficult if you want, than using a 5.25 HD drive.

Unless that all you want is to use a modern 3.5 HD drive in DD mode. That wouldn’t be a problem, except for changing the drive ID because modern drives are jumper-less.

Yes, clock should be 16 Mhz. Some, probably most, 1772 can support that much overclocking. And there is a version that Atari used in later ST models, nicknamed the Ajax, that is guaranteed to work at 16 Mhz.

You would still have some complications. A custom ROM, the higher clock interface, etc. And this is assuming the drive’s CPU can cope with the faster transfer rate at all (which I don’t know).

But with a 1.2MB drive, you’ll have all these complications plus some more.

Wonder if this guy is really doing 1.44MB with a WD2797 and a 2 MHz clock for a Z80:
http://home.swipnet...._fdc/wd_fdc.htm

Edited by warerat, Mon Mar 6, 2006 12:16 AM.

[jaybird3rd]

warerat, on Mon Mar 6, 2006 12:06 AM, said:

I just verified on my XF551 that A12 is indeed strapped to ground, unless yours has been modified somehow.  The files are 8K, but there is only 4K of code (look at the top half from $1000-$1FFF).

Interesting ... I'll have to check that out.

Speaking of alternate XF551 code, has anyone successfully used the Hyper-XF ROM for 720K drives with all four virtual partitions? I've tried the version that JR> provided earlier, but I can only seem to access two partitions instead of four. I know that the 360K version is limited to two partitions, but I'm using HYPROMB.ROM (which looks to me like the one I'm supposed to use for 720K drives). Am I using the wrong ROM, or is there something else I have to do?

[JR>]

jaybird3rd, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 11:34 PM, said:

warerat, on Mon Mar 6, 2006 12:06 AM, said:

I just verified on my XF551 that A12 is indeed strapped to ground, unless yours has been modified somehow.  The files are 8K, but there is only 4K of code (look at the top half from $1000-$1FFF).

Interesting ... I'll have to check that out.

Speaking of alternate XF551 code, has anyone successfully used the Hyper-XF ROM for 720K drives with all four virtual partitions? I've tried the version that JR> provided earlier, but I can only seem to access two partitions instead of four. I know that the 360K version is limited to two partitions, but I'm using HYPROMB.ROM (which looks to me like the one I'm supposed to use for 720K drives). Am I using the wrong ROM, or is there something else I have to do?

HYPROMB is the correct ROM for 720k drives. I've never tried the partitioned mode but as I understand it you set the drive mode (using hypmode.com) to A,B,C, or D to access each of the 4 partitions.

There is also something about a mode M that allows the partitons to be MIXED (i.e. different densities) so if not all of your partitions will be the same density, I think you need to use that somehow.

Don't know if any of this helps.