46 replies to this topic

[walter_J64bit]

JR>, on Mon Mar 6, 2006 12:19 PM, said:

jaybird3rd, on Sun Mar 5, 2006 11:34 PM, said:

warerat, on Mon Mar 6, 2006 12:06 AM, said:

I just verified on my XF551 that A12 is indeed strapped to ground, unless yours has been modified somehow.  The files are 8K, but there is only 4K of code (look at the top half from $1000-$1FFF).

Interesting ... I'll have to check that out.

Speaking of alternate XF551 code, has anyone successfully used the Hyper-XF ROM for 720K drives with all four virtual partitions? I've tried the version that JR> provided earlier, but I can only seem to access two partitions instead of four. I know that the 360K version is limited to two partitions, but I'm using HYPROMB.ROM (which looks to me like the one I'm supposed to use for 720K drives). Am I using the wrong ROM, or is there something else I have to do?

HYPROMB is the correct ROM for 720k drives. I've never tried the partitioned mode but as I understand it you set the drive mode (using hypmode.com) to A,B,C, or D to access each of the 4 partitions.

There is also something about a mode M that allows the partitons to be MIXED (i.e. different densities) so if not all of your partitions will be the same density, I think you need to use that somehow.mail

Don't know if any of this helps.

I see how this work now it's like when someone partitions a Hard drive you can access the partition at any time so the 360k fromat can only have two partitions is that SS 810 format or ED 1050 format partitions?

[JR>]

walter_J64bit, on Mon Mar 6, 2006 1:21 PM, said:

I see how this work now it's like when someone partitions a Hard drive you can access the partition at any time so the 360k fromat can only have two partitions is that SS 810 format or ED 1050 format partitions?

My impression was that you could use any of the common SINGLE SIDED formats (SD,ED,DD) but that double sided formats could not be used in a partition.

[CharlieChaplin]

Well,
the HYPROM-A is indeed for 5,25" versions and B is for 3,5" versions (if I remember correctly). There are several options available when booting the drive (drive door open, no disk inserted) - until the menu appears:

ABCDFMSX 16 ESC

ESC - press escape key to reboot
1,6 - press key 1 or 6 to use the Hyper-XF SIO in page 1 or page 6
(memory $0100 or $0600 just like the good old turbo-disk-drives!)

A,B,C,D: press any of these keys to access that partition (only if disk is partitioned
of course!)

F: press the F key to access all four partitions (ABCD or better d1:-d4:) at once and do a density/format check for each partition (good for partitions with mixed densities)... hint: good for AR-the dungeon which supports 4 drives and 128k computers (the main program side 1 is copied to the extra ram, the remaining disksides 2-5 now load off of a 3,5" multi-partitioned disk without any need of disk-changing!)

M: press the M key to access all four partitions at once (d1:-d4:)

S: press S key to access a 720k disk formatted in ST or PC format
(alas, this requires extra software which never became available! the drive
would have to split the ST/PC 512byte sectors in two halves of 256 bytes then,
thus reading such a disk would take quite some time...)

X: press the X key for normal XF551 mode (no partitions, just the 4 standard densities: 90k, 130k, 180k and 360k)

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Well, if you load Hypmode.COM (don`t forget the RUN or Init adress at $0180 if I remember correctly!) - it seems to hang at first, don`t worry, you simply have to type two keys here: 1) drive number (d1: - d4:) and 2) mode letter (ABCDFMSX).
So for example one may type 1 and then F and return to DOS then...

Yes, it is true that partitions can only be used in single-sided densities, so you *cannot* use two 360k partitions on a 720k disk. There are only the densities 90k (single), 130k (medium/enhanced) and 180k (double) available. but these were (or maybe still are) the standard Atari disk densities. And the densities can be mixed (f.e. part. 1: SD, part. 2: ED, part. 3: DD, part. 4: ED) on a partitioned disk. this way, one may copy most of the existing PD/Freeware/Shareware programs to 3,5" disks without the need to change the density (hint: it is not always easy to copy a 130k bootdisk to a 720k disk, using a partition there is much easier)...

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But the partitions have one dis-advantage: There exist programs that use multiple disk-sides, but only disk-side 1 (or A) is bootable. With a 5,25" disk one may simply turn over the disk. With a partitioned 3,5" disk this is not possible! (And as soon as you try to load in Hypmode.COM to reach another partition, the program-code of this bootable disk-side 1 is gone, meaning you now can reach another disk-side but it is not bootable.) Afaik, the only solution to get rid of this, is to install a switch on the Hyper-XF disk-drive (connected to the FDC!), so one can switch the partitions via hardware (or one may install an alternative OS into the Atari computer, like QMEG-OS by the same author as Hyper-XF-OS, and then switch the partition via OS, again a hardware-switch!)...

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Anyway, since 3,5" disks are no standard for A8 computers - and will never be - you can only do some private backups to such disks/drives. Or you collect your complete disk-archive on such disks - but there is no easy way of exchanging disks with other users then (especially those, that do not have 3,5" drives)... so, sooner or later you are copying some/most programs back to 5,25" disks...

and err, well, even 3,5" disks are limited (if you have, say 1000 disks 5,25", you may copy them all to 3,5" disks, this will reduce the number of disks by 50% but there are still 500 disks in 3,5" format then). So sooner or later you will try to use better alternatives (harddisks, CF-cards, micro-drives, CD`s, DVD`s, SIO2PC/APE or other emulators, etc. etc.). Thinking of these dis-advantages I gave up copying all my 5,25"disks to 3,5" and in the end I even sold my 3,5" XF drive (in favor of a harddisk and sooner or later in favor of CD/DVD)...

but these are just my personal opinions. anyone may choose the media for A8 computers (to load/boot programs) he likes best... -Andreas Magenheimer.

P.S.: I "created" this XF551 and Hyper-XF utility disk by collecting all the stuff I could find for these drives... if you have some more stuff (you would like to be added), let me know - or better send me a copy of that stuff (so I can add it to these disks)...

[jaybird3rd]

Thanks for that write-up; that clarified a couple of things for me.

I've been playing around with the Hyper-XF software some more, and so far I've found that it works very nicely. The problem I had earlier accessing all four partitions was just a stupid oversight on my part; I was using Atari DOS at the time (I've got some software that requires it) and I forgot to reconfigure it for four-drive operation first. I usually use MyDOS 4.53, and that's a lot easier to configure for the four virtual drives.

The limitations you mention are very real, and I agree that a solution like this is of limited use in today's world compared to some other newer alternatives. Aside for the "coolness" factor, I wanted to do this mostly because APE is too cumbersome for daily use, although it's great for making backups and transferring new software from the PC. Something about MyIDE has always bugged me somehow (some of the issues cited here probably come closest to the reasons), but because I can't afford a Black Box and am not fortunate enough to understand Polish, it's the only hard drive option readily available to me. High-capacity floppies are the next-best option, and Hyper-XF seems to do a good job of letting me use the extra space with software that was only designed for 90K (which was the only thing I really couldn't do with Bob Woolley's public-domain mod).

The biggest problem I've encountered so far is the boot drive limitation you mentioned: you can only boot from partition 'A' in 'multi' mode, and if you boot to any individual partition, you lose access to the others and can't easily switch to a different one afterward. This is especially annoying with programs that were designed to run from "flippies," which always look to "Drive 1" regardless of how many other drives are available. The workaround I've discovered for this is to copy the two "flippy" images into the same partition number on two floppies ("Side A" would be in the fourth partition on one disk and "Side B" would be in the fourth partition on another disk, for example). Granted, I'm still swapping disks, but that does let me condense four "flippies" onto two 720K diskettes.

[walter_J64bit]

You know if some would hack the Hyper-XF software make a English version of Hyper-XF software that would be a big help.

Edited by walter_J64bit, Wed Mar 8, 2006 7:38 PM.

[jaybird3rd]

walter_J64bit, on Wed Mar 8, 2006 7:38 PM, said:

You know if some would hack the Hyper-XF software make a English version of Hyper-XF software that would be a big help.

Now that I'm getting used to the software, I'm actually picking up on the basics pretty well even without the benefit of exhaustive documentation.

I will admit, though, that between the German-only documentation for the Hyper-XF software and the Polish-only A8 sites, I often feel like I'm "on the outside looking in" these days as an English-speaking A8 enthusiast.

Edited by jaybird3rd, Wed Mar 8, 2006 8:43 PM.

[walter_J64bit]

jaybird3rd, on Wed Mar 8, 2006 9:38 PM, said:

walter_J64bit, on Wed Mar 8, 2006 7:38 PM, said:

You know if some would hack the Hyper-XF software make a English version of Hyper-XF software that would be a big help.

Now that I'm getting used to the software, I'm actually picking up on the basics pretty well even without the benefit of exhaustive documentation.

I will admit, though, that between the German-only documentation for the Hyper-XF software and the Polish-only A8 sites, I often feel like I'm "on the outside looking in" these days as an English-speaking A8 enthusiast.

I just got the POOL TOO CD-Rom and there a dir on the disk called (ABBUC) I have no idea whats going I think it's all German!

[walter_J64bit]

Hey jaybird3rd my ROM update just came in! I've Just ran Super Dos I see the new speed kick in! Thanks!

Edited by walter_J64bit, Thu Mar 9, 2006 4:08 PM.

[jaybird3rd]

walter_J64bit, on Thu Mar 9, 2006 4:01 PM, said:

Hey jaybird3rd my ROM pudate just came in! I've Just ran Super Dos I see the new speed kick in!    Thanks!

You're welcome! Glad to hear it's working for you!

[walter_J64bit]

Ok it been sometime but how do I use .com files? I'm trying to hypmode.com.

[jaybird3rd]

walter_J64bit, on Thu Mar 9, 2006 7:24 PM, said:

Ok it been sometime but how do I use .com files?  I'm trying to hypmode.com.

Just load them like any other executable (using the "L" command in Atari DOS and its equivalent in other DOSes). The A8 isn't particular when it comes to extensions, so you have to specify the entire filename.

[walter_J64bit]

jaybird3rd, on Thu Mar 9, 2006 8:37 PM, said:

walter_J64bit, on Thu Mar 9, 2006 7:24 PM, said:

Ok it been sometime but how do I use .com files?  I'm trying to hypmode.com.

Just load them like any other executable (using the "L" command in Atari DOS and its equivalent in other DOSes). The A8 isn't particular when it comes to extensions, so you have to specify the entire filename.

What Dos are you using? Super Dos doesn't mix with the Hyper-XF update the Super Dos see it as a 1050 with USDoubler I can't use the 360k Format.

[jaybird3rd]

walter_J64bit, on Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:01 AM, said:

What Dos are you using? Super Dos doesn't mix with the Hyper-XF update the Super Dos see it as a 1050 with USDoubler I can't use the 360k Format.

I use MyDOS 4.53 primarily, which is VERY flexible in terms of disk formats and gives me full 720K disk capacity on my 3.5-inch '551. I also use Atari DOS (either 2.0s or 2.5) for software that requires it, but those DOSes are also much older and don't support more than 130K per disk (or partition).

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with Super DOS, but I suspect that it too is simply too old to support larger disk formats. For 360K disks, I know you can use either SpartaDOS or MyDOS (which is a lot easier to get), or DOS XE. I'm sure there are also others I'm not aware of.

[walter_J64bit]

jaybird3rd, on Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:38 AM, said:

walter_J64bit, on Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:01 AM, said:

What Dos are you using? Super Dos doesn't mix with the Hyper-XF update the Super Dos see it as a 1050 with USDoubler I can't use the 360k Format.

I use MyDOS 4.53 primarily, which is VERY flexible in terms of disk formats and gives me full 720K disk capacity on my 3.5-inch '551. I also use Atari DOS (either 2.0s or 2.5) for software that requires it, but those DOSes are also much older and don't support more than 130K per disk (or partition).

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with Super DOS, but I suspect that it too is simply too old to support larger disk formats. For 360K disks, I know you can use either SpartaDOS or MyDOS (which is a lot easier to get), or DOS XE. I'm sure there are also others I'm not aware of.

Super DOS does support fromat of 360K disks, I'll give MyDOS 4.53 a try to see if does the trick.

[jaybird3rd]

walter_J64bit, on Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:19 PM, said:

Super DOS does support fromat of 360K disks, I'll give MyDOS 4.53 a try to see if does the trick.

Don't forget to configure the parameters of the drive in MyDOS before attempting the format (I'm away from home right now or else I'd give them to you here; I'll try to dig them up later). Also, make sure the drive is in 'X' mode.

[walter_J64bit]

Any here knows how to format a XF551 in 360k format with MY4.50?

[classics]

walter_J64bit, on Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:28 AM, said:

Any here knows how to format a XF551 in 360k format with MY4.50?

Use P to set it to double density '1,D'

The use 'O' to configure it as 40 tracks, double sided.

Then format your disk normally.

Steve

[walter_J64bit]

jaybird3rd, on Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:13 PM, said:

walter_J64bit, on Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:19 PM, said:

Super DOS does support fromat of 360K disks, I'll give MyDOS 4.53 a try to see if does the trick.

Don't forget to configure the parameters of the drive in MyDOS before attempting the format (I'm away from home right now or else I'd give them to you here; I'll try to dig them up later). Also, make sure the drive is in 'X' mode.

Ok I put the 551 in 'X' mode and when I've try to format a disk in 360k all I get is ERROR #173, Ive used three DOS's and all I get are ERRORs so I'm going to reinstall the old OS.

[jaybird3rd]

walter_J64bit, on Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:55 AM, said:

Ok I put the 551 in 'X' mode and when I've try to format a disk in 360k all I get is ERROR #173, Ive used three DOS's and all I get are ERRORs so I'm going to reinstall the old OS.

If I remember correctly, "ERROR 173" is a bad sector error. Have you tried it with several floppies? It might just be a bad diskette.

[walter_J64bit]

jaybird3rd, on Mon Mar 13, 2006 9:31 AM, said:

walter_J64bit, on Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:55 AM, said:

Ok I put the 551 in 'X' mode and when I've try to format a disk in 360k all I get is ERROR #173, Ive used three DOS's and all I get are ERRORs so I'm going to reinstall the old OS.

If I remember correctly, "ERROR 173" is a bad sector error. Have you tried it with several floppies? It might just be a bad diskette.

Yes, I've tried other disks there might be a chance the the 1200XL OS might not work with the Hyper-XF update.

Edited by walter_J64bit, Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:32 PM.

[krupkaj]

just tried it with 800XE and works nice for me.

[walter_J64bit]

krupkaj, on Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:05 PM, said:

just tried it with 800XE and works nice for me.

I wish that my keyboard on my 800 was working than I could see if it is just the 1200XL being buggy.