25 replies to this topic

[StanJr]

I was browsing the Rarity Guide and was wondering when homebrews will lose their "H" Rarity and acquire actual rarity rankings? For homebrews that are still in production and for sale, the "H" applies most accurately, but for those that are no longer in production and are not actively being sold, shouldn't a rarity of some kind be determined. Edtris 2600 for example. No one I know of its currently marketing this homebrewed game, so it is not in current distribution or production. Therefore, it is pretty much of the same status as something like Asteroids. Doesn't Edtris deserve a "real" rarity at this point?

[dwh]

There is also the rarity of all those games made by Hozer Vidio.Although a lot of the titles are still made,even by AA, you just do not see these old titles very often on ebay.Then there is all the special edition numbered items, those ought to be pretty rare.
How rare would my (paper)boxed copy of Ebivisions release of Allia Quest be?I guess it depends on how many people have the item.We would have to continue, or start to do the rarity polls on the homebrew items.

[StanJr]

Yeah, Hozer games would be equivalent to "label variations" ala Sears and Atari.

But I do think its time for these "older" homebrews to acquire real rarity.

[sku_u]

StanJr, on Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:47 PM, said:

Yeah, Hozer games would be equivalent to "label variations" ala Sears and Atari.

But I do think its time for these "older" homebrews to acquire real rarity.

What are you considering a homebrew? There are many 1 off limited run hack releases as well, some of which go back many years.

[StanJr]

"hack" is a good first indicator of elimiation. Homebrews need to be homebrews, unique games, not hacks. Second, I would say that pretty much any Homebrew qualifies as long as it was distributed in any way, shape or form (even a one-off single distribution). I guess if you want to work your ass off to make a homebrew, then one-off it and keep it, you will have the rarest Atari game of all!

[sku_u]

StanJr, on Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:15 PM, said:

"hack" is a good first indicator of elimiation. Homebrews need to be homebrews, unique games, not hacks. Second, I would say that pretty much any Homebrew qualifies as long as it was distributed in any way, shape or form (even a one-off single distribution). I guess if you want to work your ass off to make a homebrew, then one-off it and keep it, you will have the rarest Atari game of all!

If that's the case, Connect the Dots is the rarest homebrew in the world with only two copies having ever been created and released:

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...onnect+the+dots

The main reasons I *don't* want to see rarities assigned to these are first off, I like having them as a separate category and second every homebrew no longer being sold would be an instant 9 or 10 because at the most a few hundred were sold and at the least 25 or less were sold. That's not even considering the subtle differences between releases like Thrust, Space Treat, Okie Dokie, etc...

[Albert]

I'm not really sure I want to add every homebrew game to the database in every iteration a game has been released in. Much less assign a rarity value to games that were either produced in a very limited number or are no longer being produced. It would be easy to clutter the rarity guide in such fashion. I have been adding new homebrew games to the database as they've been released, but haven't gone much beyond that. It might be worthwhile to create a section for "Homebrew" games that can then include the variations for each game. Say, for instance, "SCSIcide", which has seen:

- Original CGE 2001 SCSIcide release (50 copies?)
- General release by Hozer
- PhillyClassic 3 Release
- General release by AtariAge
- Ultra SCSIcide (which I would list as a separate game, but still link from the normal SCSIcide entry).

Four of these actually are in the main database right now, the only one missing is the "General release by AtariAge". Generally if a homebrew game was already in the database when we started selling it, I did not add it again, even if the game had new label artwork.

I think it would be worthwhile to try and catalog all the homebrew games in a more comprehensive fashion (complete with scans and any historical information about the games), I'm just not crazy about adding them to the main rarity guide.

..Al

[StanJr]

I see your point, but at the same time, why should the Diagnostic Cartridge or Tooth Protectors warrant a rarity and Edtris not?

[StanJr]

Re: Albert

I get that point as well, but why put the Homebrews in the Rarity Guide at all then, if the purpose of the guide is "Rarity?"

[sku_u]

StanJr, on Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:41 PM, said:

Re: Albert

I get that point as well, but why put the Homebrews in the Rarity Guide at all then, if the purpose of the guide is "Rarity?"

The purpose of the guide isn't just rarity. It's an archive. That's why there are game descriptions, cart, manual, box scans and binary files there and why there is a separate hacks database within the master archive. There are also links to many other sections, scans and information related to the specific system you're searching. It's kind of a shame more people don't take advantage of that wealth of knowledge and only look for rarity listings when using it.

[Albert]

StanJr, on Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:41 PM, said:

Re: Albert

I get that point as well, but why put the Homebrews in the Rarity Guide at all then, if the purpose of the guide is "Rarity?"

What sku_u said hits the nail on the head. When Alex started a "2600 Rarity List" a long time ago, it was basically just a list of games, manufacturer, and rarity. When we started AtariAge, we decided to expand greatly on this and include more information about each game, as well as scans and screenshots. Perhaps calling it a "Rarity Guide" is a bit of a misnomer now, but that seems to be what most people were calling these things back then. "Game Database" might be a better term. I will probably set my sights on this soon enough as there are several improvements I want to make to it.

..Al

[StanJr]

It really is more of a database now, so Rarity Guide is definitely a misnomer. I am extremely thankful for the comprehensive nature of the AA database. It has proven invaluable on more than one occasion.

So is the final conclusion that Homebrews will never carry rarity? Even 10 years from now?

[remowilliams]

I can't see any positive or worthwhile effect to be had by assigning rarity to homebrews.

[MattG/Snyper2099]

There is no reason for homebrew releases to have a rarity. I could release a homebrew and sell 25 numbered copies. Then, wait 8-10 years and make 25 more because by that point people really miss the game and new collectors are willing to pay big money for it. You see how this may detract from the hobby right? I like how the guide has a H designation. A rarity would just confuse things. It would also be very easy to reproduce most of the homebrews. Hell, most all the labels, manuals and boxes were printed on inkjet or laser printers that can be bought at staples.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

I just really hope my homebrews will never become "victims" of adventurers.

BTW: Isn't Hozer still in production? AFAIK he will make any cart you ask for, even those he definitely is not allowed to. So all Hozer releases would be still get a 'H' and have no rarity at all.

[Marco]

Only one homebrew deserves a rarity rating: Cubicolor

Cheers,
Marco

[remowilliams]

MattG/Snyper2099, on Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:14 AM, said:

You see how this may detract from the hobby right?

Are you trying to say that assigning an uber 11 rarity to the super duper supercalifragilistic special platinum limited signed alternate artwork edition of a home made production is going to cause problems?

Say it isn't so!!

[Albert]

remowilliams, on Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:42 PM, said:

MattG/Snyper2099, on Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:14 AM, said:

You see how this may detract from the hobby right?

Are you trying to say that assigning an uber 11 rarity to the super duper supercalifragilistic special platinum limited signed alternate artwork edition of a home made production is going to cause problems?

Say it isn't so!!

I have quite a few homebrew games myself, including many that were produced in "limited" numbers. I like the idea of making them rare by assigning them rarity values of 8+. The value of my collection would skyrocket! And then I could list them on eBay as, "!! EXTREMELY RARE L@@K SCSICIDE !!" then in the description, "Rated 10 on the AtariAge.com Rarity Guide!"

..Al

[remowilliams]

Albert, on Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:20 PM, said:

I have quite a few homebrew games myself, including many that were produced in "limited" numbers. I like the idea of making them rare by assigning them rarity values of 8+. The value of my collection would skyrocket! And then I could list them on eBay as, "!! EXTREMELY RARE L@@K SCSICIDE !!" then in the description, "Rated 10 on the AtariAge.com Rarity Guide!"

..Al

LOL - at least then you'd get to hotlink your own images on ebay!

[sku_u]

remowilliams, on Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:24 PM, said:

Albert, on Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:20 PM, said:

I have quite a few homebrew games myself, including many that were produced in "limited" numbers. I like the idea of making them rare by assigning them rarity values of 8+. The value of my collection would skyrocket! And then I could list them on eBay as, "!! EXTREMELY RARE L@@K SCSICIDE !!" then in the description, "Rated 10 on the AtariAge.com Rarity Guide!"

..Al

LOL - at least then you'd get to hotlink your own images on ebay!

[tenoch]

If someone wanted to collect the Original CGE 2001 SCSIcide release (50 copies?) would he or she pay more for it than a General release cart by AtariAge? If so would the so called rarity be higher than the newer released versions?

I guess the rarity would be set by the seller of the cart. They could say, this is a rarity of 10 and your going to pay so much $ for it if you want it, even if AtariAge does not have it listed with a rarity. There is limited supply so the price and rarity could be set by the demand.

Up to the buyer to determine what it is worth to them to have.

-t

[Andrew Davie]

Marco, on Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:49 AM, said:

Only one homebrew deserves a rarity rating: Cubicolor

Cheers,
Marco

No, no, no, no!! Qb definitely deserves a rarity of -2
Cheers
A

[Foxsolo2000]

Marco, on Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:49 PM, said:

Only one homebrew deserves a rarity rating: Cubicolor

Cheers,
Marco

I agree with Marco on this. Cubi Colour is arguably the first Homebrew of the Golden Age. Also how would a rarity scale work when anyone could download a rom and turn it into a cart for sale?

[Buyatari]

Homebrews should never have a rarity value. They are aftermarket products with a near 100% survival rate. If you stayed true to the rarity scale a sample of 10 random homebrews would look something like this.

R10
R9
R10
R10
R9
R10
R10
R10
R9
R10

Stupid and pointless.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Buyatari, on Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:29 AM, said:

Homebrews should never have a rarity value.
...
Stupid and pointless.

Exactly. At least my homebrews are mainly meant for playing and not for making money.