6 replies to this topic

[carmel_andrews]

According to various sources on various Atari and atari 8bit related websites that Atari were planning (in the last year or so of the warner's admin) some sort of 16bit upgrade to the vernerable 6502, apprently Atari had got a design in place but didn't have the money (or design tools) to perfect the final design and bring it to market

Atari were already making their own processors, as they designed the ones used in the 400/800/xl etc computers

Atari aparently licensed or sold out the unfinished design to an 'un-named' 3rd party, not only to finish the design but also to bring it to market and continue future developemnt

I alway's thought that Atari sold the design to WDC (Western design centre) the processor, to evenytually become the 65816

Apparently this ISNT so, as according to email correspondence i had from William Mensch, the top man at WDC (here is a copy of the email)


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hi CA,

I designed the 65816 and I worked with Apple not Atari. Apple provided
minimal input and I mostly just kept in touch as the design progressed
in
1983. Apple stated time and again that they had a 16-bit microprocessor
and
that was used in the Mac at the time and is known as the 68000 from
Motorola.

When they actually decided to supply the Apple IIgs it was somewhat of
a
surprise to me as I recall. Perhaps this was their way of keeping their
true
intentions secret.

-Bill

65xx & Terbium
Microprocessor Technology
William D. Mensch, Jr.
Chairman & CEO
The Western Design Center, Inc.
2166 East Brown Road
Mesa, AZ 85213
www.WesternDesignCenter.com
Bill.Mensch@WesternDesignCenter.com
Ph 480.962.4545
Fx 480.835.6442

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

My question is, if it wasn't WDC Atari sold their processor design to... who was it, I ask because, I understand that the 65816 and variations for the WDC 65xxx family of processors were the only commercially released and recognised 16bit versions of the 6502 processor officially released and therefore WDC were the only 'recognised' manuf. of 65xxx processors

Pehaps someone can shed some light on this

[Rybags]

AFAIK, Atari never indulged in CPU design.

The 6502 and 68000 were already mature off-the-shelf products months/years before appearing in Atari computers/consoles.

There was the 6502C which had the DMA pin on the CPU, which allowed eliminating several chips which previously allowed sharing of the buses between 6502 and ANTIC.

But I severly doubt that Atari had much, if any, engineering input into that innovation.

Edited by Rybags, Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:47 AM.

[mos6507]

Atari didn't have much in-house engineering left after Jay Miner's team left. Certainly nobody who could create any new custom chips. That's why they were negotiating with Miner for the Amiga around this time. After they saw what was going on with the Amiga, I don't think they were that interested in 16-bit 6502 variants.

Apple's situation was different since the Mac originally came out as a business oriented machine with a drab greyscale display. The Apple IIGS was a much more colorful machine and found a niche until the Mac got color graphics.

If the 65816 had come out in 1980 or 1981, then maybe it would have gained more mindshare, but it came around rather late in the game. By 1984 the 68000 had already been around for some time, but just priced out of the market initially, and engineers were already yearning to use it. The 68K wound up being used in coinop hardware before it started to show up in consumer hardware. For instance, Spy Hunter uses one for sound.

Edited by mos6507, Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:55 AM.

[batari]

mos6507, on Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:46 AM, said:

If the 65816 had come out in 1980 or 1981, then maybe it would have gained more mindshare, but it came around rather late in the game. By 1984 the 68000 had already been around for some time, but just priced out of the market initially, and engineers were already yearning to use it. The 68K wound up being used in coinop hardware before it started to show up in consumer hardware. For instance, Spy Hunter uses one for sound.

The 65816 was used in the SNES, and given its immense popularity, I'd consider the chip to be wildly successful.

[mos6507]

Sure, but just not for home computers.

[Wildstar]

Rybags, on Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:47 AM, said:

AFAIK, Atari never indulged in CPU design.

The 6502 and 68000 were already mature off-the-shelf products months/years before appearing in Atari computers/consoles.

There was the 6502C which had the DMA pin on the CPU, which allowed eliminating several chips which previously allowed sharing of the buses between 6502 and ANTIC.

But I severly doubt that Atari had much, if any, engineering input into that innovation.

Sorry, Atari did not make CPUs. They had gotten their CPUs from MOS Technologies (Commodore Semiconductor Group) or Western Design Center or from one of the licensees.

Custom versions were made for Atari but not by Atari themselves.

[mos6507]

Yes, and sadly Commodore's polluted plant eventually became a Superfund site.