[GroovyBee]

NESaholic, on Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:01 PM, said:

I own the proto and want to release it with box manual and such stuff. Atm I am talking to several people to give this game a proper release, I hope this clarifies what's going on.

I hope that you'll be sending copy number 1 to Andrew Davie free of charge? I think he deserves to be sent some programmer royalties from each subsequent sale too.

EDIT: For spelling.

This post has been edited by GroovyBee: Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:57 AM

[NESaholic]

I think you don't have to worry about that. Andrew will be notified, ofcourse.

[nesworld]

GroovyBee, on Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:08 AM, said:

I think he deserves to be sent some programmer royalties from each subsequent sale too.

You're kidding right?

[NESaholic]

@ nesworld, that's also what I thought. Anyways, Andrew deserves a free copy for sure, but asking royalties is a tad ( really put nicely) over the top IMO.

[GroovyBee]

nesworld, on Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:44 PM, said:

You're kidding right?

Not at all. Thats what happens when you do a homebrew cart run. So your telling me that the original programmer (who didn't get paid for the work) doesn't deserve a little money back?

[NESaholic]

Andrew got paid for what he did, iirc he got monthly paid to work for this company. I could have not told this but I am willing to add something to the community, I hope you can understand. You think we ( or maybe better said I) are selfish, the thing is this game was programmed to be released, it didn't happen, now I am willing to share. Think about that instead of the monologe your refering to. I paid quite some cash for it, would you do that and then share it, I don't think so. You presume so I presume, nuff said.

Edit: This game, as said before "deserves" a proper release, that's what I am planning to do. Box, manual, label, styrofoam and so on.

This post has been edited by NESaholic: Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:32 PM

[Atariboy]

Unless I'm mistaken, Andrew has stated he just wants a copy of his work on cartridge. There's really no reason to be having a discussion about him recieving royalties as far as I can see it since he didn't seem interested or ever suggested it.

Has he recieved a electronic copy of his work and will recieve a free cartridge when they're produced? I can't speak for everyone, but I think everyone wants to see him treated respectively and finally get a copy of what he programmed after all of these years in return for seeing his work be reproduced for sale.

Thanks for taking the effort to do a reproduction run of cartridges and releasing the prototype you discovered.

This post has been edited by Atariboy: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:36 PM

[GroovyBee]

Atariboy, on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:33 PM, said:

Unless I'm mistaken, Andrew has stated he just wants a copy of his work on cartridge. There's really no reason to be having a discussion about him recieving royalties as far as I can see it since he didn't seem interested or ever suggested it.

Even though he didn't ask for royalties the offer should still have been made in my opinion.

Atariboy, on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:33 PM, said:

Has he recieved a electronic copy of his work and will recieve a free cartridge when they're produced? I can't speak for everyone, but I think everyone wants to see him treated respectively and finally get a copy of what he programmed after all of these years in return for seeing his work be reproduced for sale.

That should have been taken care of by the end of 2006 in my opinion, but it never did. Why it still hasn't happened (I assume) is beyond me.

[NESaholic]

Your missing the point here, it is will be released that's the main issue, plus in a nice way.
Not a repro cart only, no a complete copy including all things, maybe even an action figure.
You need to give people time, not just say it should have been taken care off, it's not easy to accomplish something like I want.
It takes time, efford, people helping you out, assembling the frigging cart, labels manuals boxes.
You talk like it's a piece of cake to make this happen, it's easy to ask for a free ROM release if you don't have to pay for it.
Sorry to say, but I really think you should get of your cross cause someone else needs the wood.

This post has been edited by NESaholic: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:57 PM

[GroovyBee]

NESaholic, on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:52 PM, said:

Your missing the point here, it is will be released that's the main issue, plus in a nice way.
Not a repro cart only, no a complete copy including all things, maybe even an action figure.
You need to give people time, not just say it should have been taken care off, it's not easy to accomplish something like I want.

My main issue is getting the programmer a copy of the game. From what I understand several people have offered to step in to make that happen at no cost (in the last 3 years) to you or the original prototype finder. Failing that, how hard can it be to type in Andrew's name and attach a binary file to send to him on this forum?

NESaholic, on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:52 PM, said:

It takes time, efford, people helping you out, assembling the frigging cart, labels manuals boxes.
You talk like it's a piece of cake to make this happen,

I have released my own homebrew game on cart for the 7800 this year (since it was released in April). Its a matter of knowing who to ask to help you get your wishes into reality. I'll be releasing another homebrew game later this year too. I'm well aware of what it takes to get things done and I know it doesn't take years once you get the ball rolling.

NESaholic, on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:52 PM, said:

it's easy to ask for a free ROM release if you don't have to pay for it.

I have no interest in this game. I don't even own a NES! I'm the last person that would buy a copy. I just like to see that the "right thing" is done.

NESaholic, on Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:52 PM, said:

Sorry to say, but I really think you should get of your cross cause someone else needs the wood.

I say get off your high horse first!

[NESaholic]

I agree on several things you just wrote, as stated b4 Andrew will get what's coming for him.
You just cannot assume things when you don't know the story behind it. It clearly costs money also, I dunno how much $ your prodruction costed but it's pretty darn exspensive.

Edit: FYI the game states it's programmed by Andrew. So no need for mentioning it twice, right.

This post has been edited by NESaholic: Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:48 PM

[GroovyBee]

NESaholic, on Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:44 PM, said:

I agree on several things you just wrote, as stated b4 Andrew will get what's coming for him.
You just cannot assume things when you don't know the story behind it. It clearly costs money also, I dunno how much $ your prodruction costed but it's pretty darn exspensive.

Agreed! Making carts isn't cheap but its worth it in the end .

[Andrew Davie]

NESaholic, on Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:44 AM, said:

I agree on several things you just wrote, as stated b4 Andrew will get what's coming for him.
You just cannot assume things when you don't know the story behind it. It clearly costs money also, I dunno how much $ your prodruction costed but it's pretty darn exspensive.

Edit: FYI the game states it's programmed by Andrew. So no need for mentioning it twice, right.

We ARE all getting a little excited, aren't we!

I do not want or expect royalties. I'm happy the game has survived. Yes, I would have liked a copy back in 2006, but since the prototype in my opinion belonged to the person who found it at the market (and subsequent buyers), all I could do was politely request a copy and/or make tongue-in-cheek vague legal threats. It's been a bit frustrating waiting for so long, but I'm reasonably patient. Probably the property actually belongs to the successor of Beam Software (both the physical cart AND the binary), but it's a pretty cloudy area. Personally I don't think there'd be an issue with a limited release, in fact I'd be delighted to see this. It's not a great game, just an interesting one because of the relatively huge sprites.

I would be happy to contribute to a release for a small return -- for example, personally signing the manual or box... or something similar. I'd gladly take a free copy if it were offered, and happily buy one if not. It's not a big issue for me. As I said, delighted for it to have survived, and I just wanted a physical copy on cartridge sometime sooner rather than later.

I have had some private offers and communications, so please don't assume that nobody has done anything.

Cheers
A

[GroovyBee]

Andrew Davie, on Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:41 AM, said:

I have had some private offers and communications, so please don't assume that nobody has done anything.

If you're happy, we're happy .

[NESaholic]

Thanks for clearing things up Andrew, the signing the manual thingy really interesting! I will notify you when I have the work done.
At this moment this will at least cost me 1000$, so go figure why the long wait and so on. I hope you guys can understand, if you want it done nicely and how it was ment it just takes time and money. Things are getting of the ground atm and serious planning is being done.

[MegaManFan]

Forgive me for being dense, but as the author, shouldn't it have been Andrew Davie's prerogative to authorize a release and select someone to reproduce it and work out the details of cart, label, manual and box? I went through this entire process with Howard Scott Warshaw and Al here at AA to get the man himself and his fully completed prototype the respect it truly deserved at a con...

http://www.atariage....amp;hl=Saboteur

... only to have Infogrames/Atari yank the rug out from under us shortly after it was printed and sold at PhillyClassic.

http://www.atariage....amp;hl=Saboteur

So you live and you learn. Nevertheless throughout the entire process I deferred to Mr. Warshaw first on every single thing that came up, as did the man who supplied the "final version" ROM which was I believe Matt (Tempest) for use in the print run. As such I can't imagine somebody owning Andrew Davie's code and not letting Mr. Davie have every bit of say in producing and releasing this game from start to finish, whether he wants royalties from it or not, whether Beam has more say to the rights than he does or not. He's the coder and author and deserves the utmost respect.

[NESaholic]

The thing is that I am doing this also, as soon as I have some different prints I will notify him.

I have numerous ideas, I have the prices of boards, eproms, ciclone chips and so on. I only need the prices of the boxes, labels and manuals still.
As soon as I have those I know how much colour I can put in for a certain price.

When I finish the label designs and such I will contact Andrew and send him the info, I also want to add a nice insert which I contacted Andrew about.
I asked for suggestions also, I am open for any idea since some things are not solid yet.

-Hakan

This post has been edited by NESaholic: Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:39 AM

[MegaManFan]

I appreciate the fact you respect Mr. Davie, so I don't want to belabor this point Hakan, but to me it seems you are choosing your design and then asking him if he approves after the fact as opposed to asking him what he wants and then showing him samples. That's how I read it although we both may be losing something in translation. Like both you and Mr. Davie though I'm glad this cart hasn't been lost for good and I'm definitely interested in a reproduction when they're ready to roll.

[NESaholic]

I will send him my ideas, also I have PM'd him that I open for suggestions and all that. I am not going to deny the things he will tell me.
He has enough to say about this, equal to my opinion, so there's nothing to worry about. He can send me design or design idea's if he wants to.
I want it to be done nice and professional, that was my whole intention anyways!

Cheers,
Hakan

This post has been edited by NESaholic: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:34 AM

[the.golden.ax]

Hey why not just have a donate option for the buyers. Whatever the price is $50, 60, 65... let people bump Andrew a $5er or something as a tip for making the game. I know they are not cheap to produce and you are getting paid for that work. I've made custom controllers, and have been working on a 2600, CV, and 7800 project... the boxes, shells, PCBs, printing and other works is darn costly. No one is faulting that, and everyone including Andrew wants to see a release. Even if he doesn't want kick-back for the project, I'd more than want to give it.

AX

[Shawn Sr.]

All of this is such bullshit. Units in the quality to rival the retail nintendo released back in the day can be done in a snap and 100 copies made in 1 week could be cranked out with no issue. Overhead is no that much at all for all the materials involved compaired to the turn over and anyone saying different is totally full or shit or doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

[MrMark0673]

I released my exact cost and profit for Hoppin' Mad, I think you'd be surprised at both. Boxes and manuals for something like Happy Camper cost AT LEAST $1.5k and have a minimum of 250 copies. I saved cash using donors and collectors tins for Hoppin' Mad, I made just over $1k after 2 month's+ work. I can release exact figures here if anyone is interested, it's just enough cash that I'm happy to do the work of a repro, but spending thousands in overhead cost is something tha would scare away plenty of people.

[MegaManFan]

MrMark0673, on Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:11 PM, said:

I released my exact cost and profit for Hoppin' Mad, I think you'd be surprised at both. Boxes and manuals for something like Happy Camper cost AT LEAST $1.5k and have a minimum of 250 copies. I saved cash using donors and collectors tins for Hoppin' Mad, I made just over $1k after 2 month's+ work. I can release exact figures here if anyone is interested, it's just enough cash that I'm happy to do the work of a repro, but spending thousands in overhead cost is something tha would scare away plenty of people.

I've been out of the loop for a while, so this is the first I've heard about Hoppin' Mad. How much did your carts go for and are they the three level version that warps back around to level one as the fourth level and continues on? I assume the print run is long sold out by now but I'd love to at least see some pictures of the cart, label, box and manual.

[MrMark0673]

Hoppin' Mad was limited to 100 carts, the first 10 being collector's edition that were not for sale like the rest. Numbers 11-100 were in silver tins with black box manual and label art and came with a small rubber ball:



One lucky person got a special rubber ball that gave them a free CE Hoppin' Mad. The CE had special red tins, custom label and manual art, and a custom black vinyl dye paint job:



The regular edition sold out in 4 days, and all but 2 of the CE's were given away for free. The first 5 went to members of my team and one to Dain Anderson for his work on NintendoAge. One was given away in the rubber ball contest, one was given away in a high score contest, and 2 were auctioned off (one on NA, one on Chase the Chuckwagon). The last will be given away at the Portland Classic Gaming Expo next month.

The game was totally finished. Our very talented programmer Zzap! (James Todd, programmer of the soon to be release Chunkout 2600 as well as the 2 renditions for the NES) added enemies to the 3rd level, an extra cut scene, a pallet swap for player 2, as well as a level counter that continued after each loop.

The original programmer's names all still appear on our release, we added in the text of From Nowhere Productions as we produced the actual consumer carts. After selling out our supply and giving away the collector's edition, I also made our ROM available for public download, free of charge. It can be found on NA: http://www.nintendoa...d1=hoppin%20mad

We also have been releasing a free NES prototype ROM free to all once a month from my person collection to thank people for all of their support for our projects: http://www.nintendoa...20rom%20release

Our next planned release, an undocumented and unknown unreleased game called Kitty's Catch, has begun production and should be finished by October (hopefully) of this year. More info can be found here: http://www.unseen64....-nes-cancelled/

I have around 8 other unreleased NES games and one Sega Genesis game that we plan to release in the future too.


Edit: Forgot to answer your price question. They were $65 shipped in the US, $71 to Canada, $73 world wide.

This post has been edited by MrMark0673: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:00 PM

[MegaManFan]

Thanks for the detailed update. If you ever decide to make ONE MORE copy of Hoppin' Mad, LMK. Since that's probably unlikely, I'll just keep an eye out for your future releases. I'm glad the ROM is out there for the emulator scene, but until somebody invents the equivalent of a Cuttle Cart for NES, it's just not the same as playing it on the real thing espec. when I have 770+ authentic hard shell games as is.