19 replies to this topic

[nmoog]

Hey guys,

I've had a few weeks of 2600 programming now, and I'm having a ball. Now that I've got a mini "game" happening, I can't help but wonder about getting stuff working on my real hardware. I've been searching through the programming sections here, and the homebrew forum and I'm trying to figure out the best options for both testing while developing, and creating carts for a real 2600.

I've read about the "supercharger" and "Cuttle cart" which look like they would be great for developing with - but I am guessing that these are no longer available for purchase? Are there any other options?

I'd also like to get an eeprom writer (I've been wanting to mess around with one for ages anyway) but am unsure of what is required, or exactly how this works, to create carts that I can give to friends etc. Various snippets of information I've found on the subject seem to be out dated or contradictory. What's the latest, cheapest, and or best equipment I'd need to start looking for?

Thanks!

[SeaGtGruff]

nmoog, on Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:02 AM, said:

Hey guys,

I've had a few weeks of 2600 programming now, and I'm having a ball. Now that I've got a mini "game" happening, I can't help but wonder about getting stuff working on my real hardware. I've been searching through the programming sections here, and the homebrew forum and I'm trying to figure out the best options for both testing while developing, and creating carts for a real 2600.

I've read about the "supercharger" and "Cuttle cart" which look like they would be great for developing with - but I am guessing that these are no longer available for purchase? Are there any other options?

I'd also like to get an eeprom writer (I've been wanting to mess around with one for ages anyway) but am unsure of what is required, or exactly how this works, to create carts that I can give to friends etc. Various snippets of information I've found on the subject seem to be out dated or contradictory. What's the latest, cheapest, and or best equipment I'd need to start looking for?

Thanks!

I don't know how easy it is to find used copies of the Supercharger or Cuttle Cart, but you could get in line to buy a Krokodile Cart. And if you have a 7800, you can buy a Cuttle Cart 2.

Michael Rideout

[SpiceWare]

You can use a Supercharger for for up to 4K games(plus then you can also play the supercharger games on your Atari!)

Supercharger Development Files

Edited by SpiceWare, Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:45 AM.

[Albert]

If you do buy a device programmer, you can buy a single, socketed 4K board from our store, and then program 4K EPROMs to test your game. This is one of the less expensive routes to go if you don't want to buy a flash-based device (such as a Cuttle Cart 2 or Krokodile Cart, as neither of these are available for purchase new right now) and you plan on purchasing a programmer anyway. You'd also an EPROM eraser, which uses UltraViolet light to erase the contents of the EPROM.

The 4K board we sell with a socket is here (it's $7.00):

http://www.atariage....products_id=217

All you'd need then are EPROMs, the device programmer and ultimately an eraser.

..Al

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Superchargers show up regularily on eBay for ~$20.

[Albert]

Thomas Jentzsch, on Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:09 AM, said:

Superchargers show up regularily on eBay for ~$20.

Yes, this is definitely a good, inexpensive tool to use for game development, as long as your game stays within 4K. Much faster downloading a game to the Supercharger than programming an EPROM also. As long as you can run an audio cable from your computer to the 2600 (something you also have to do for the original Cuttle Cart), this is a great solution.

..Al

[nmoog]

I'm in line (hopefully) for the Krokodile Cart - that looks awesome!

For a device programmer - are there any suggested models etc? Any recommendations?

Also I've read on the forum here about people re-using cartridges - is this just for the outer shell? Or do you pull out the board chip and solder in your game chip? (if i were to make some games for friends)

And, (last one!), I've read about people talking about soldering a capacitor on to the cartridge. What is that about?!

Thanks!

[nmoog]

Ok, disregard all those questions, they've been discussed a million times around here. Sorry about that.

I'm thinking of getting one of those cheap-n-nastly looking Willem programmers (http://tinyurl.com/p6468 : ebay link), because not too many eprom programmers turn up on ebay Australia. From what I've read, the Willem dual-power model will burn 2 and 4k chips that you can get from the AA store. As long as you use an adapter for power.

Hopefully.

[MausBoy]

http://cgi.ebay.com....Y_BIN_Stores_IT

I don't know how to link to ebay stuff but I like this one. Is there some reason the one you posted is better?

[cd-w]

MausBoy, on Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:52 PM, said:

http://cgi.ebay.com....Y_BIN_Stores_IT
I don't know how to link to ebay stuff but I like this one. Is there some reason the one you posted is better?

Personally I wouldn't buy any item that ships from Hong Kong and accepts Western Union payment. In this case, the seller has only been active for a few months and a lot of their feedback comes from private listings. Perhaps I am over-suspicious, but you can't be too careful.

Chris

[MausBoy]

nmoog's link is the same seller. Any alternative recommendations?

Edited by MausBoy, Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:39 AM.

[nmoog]

I've been reading all the eprom posts here, and there is mixed reviews of Willem programmers in general - The specific criticisms seem to be that the "Willem Enhanced" programmer will not burn atari suitable chips (like 2732) because it is only USB powered but need more power to program them. The Dual Powered ones (like the ones we linked to on ebay) do write the chips (I believe!) if you use an external power adapter (again, I believe this is what is going on - the problem is that the Willem boards have a lot of other "adapters" to allow different chips to be used, and I'm not sure if people were talking about the power adapter, or a chip adapter that is necessary for atari eproms)

The second criticism is that if you wait around a bit you will find a similarly priced second hand programmer (like a BP Microsystems programmer) that is a lot more sturdy/professional/full featured.

Well there's my summary of the AtariAge Eprom Discussions

[batari]

nmoog, on Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:12 PM, said:

I've been reading all the eprom posts here, and there is mixed reviews of Willem programmers in general - The specific criticisms seem to be that the "Willem Enhanced" programmer will not burn atari suitable chips (like 2732) because it is only USB powered but need more power to program them. The Dual Powered ones (like the ones we linked to on ebay) do write the chips (I believe!) if you use an external power adapter (again, I believe this is what is going on - the problem is that the Willem boards have a lot of other "adapters" to allow different chips to be used, and I'm not sure if people were talking about the power adapter, or a chip adapter that is necessary for atari eproms)

The second criticism is that if you wait around a bit you will find a similarly priced second hand programmer (like a BP Microsystems programmer) that is a lot more sturdy/professional/full featured.

Well there's my summary of the AtariAge Eprom Discussions

If you're going to buy a Willem, buy direct from the manufacturer (willem.org). It may cost a little more than the Hong Kong outfit, but at least you're practically assured that you'll actually get something sent to you...

But anyway, Willems are really cheap but people seem to have tons of trouble with them, even the dual-power model. My personal analysis is that a good programmer will cost you $150-$300, and that will be for a parallel port model. A USB model will cost a couple of hundred more.

Used programmers on eBay are a real crapshoot. I'd research a programmer before bidding on it. Although I've seen some go for as low as $10, you may end up with something you can't use. It may be missing an interface card, docs or software - some require proprietary ISA cards to run them, for instance, and the software and docs can be nearly impossible to find. Though some do work with just serial comms software and have a terminal program built into the programmer's firmware.

[nmoog]

I've decided to get one of these instead: http://www.futurlec....EPROMProg.shtml - Not much more than the Willems, and there is a distributor in Australia around the corner (kinda) from me too. Everyone who mentions it on the AA forums says it works well.

[MausBoy]

http://www.vgwiz.com/a26maxicart.html

There is also the maxicart. Super fast, and it dosn't get easier than this for testing bins.

Why hasn't anyone else mentioned it? Is it unpopular, buggy, or what?

[SeaGtGruff]

MausBoy, on Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:00 AM, said:

http://www.vgwiz.com/a26maxicart.html

There is also the maxicart. Super fast, and it dosn't get easier than this for testing bins.

Why hasn't anyone else mentioned it? Is it unpopular, buggy, or what?

Personally, I never heard of it until just now. Thanks for the link!

Michael Rideout

[SpiceWare]

I'd seen it before, but $85 is a lot of money for the limited features when $99 can buy the Krok Cart.

Also, there's no Mac support.

[batari]

nmoog, on Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:14 AM, said:

I've decided to get one of these instead: http://www.futurlec....EPROMProg.shtml - Not much more than the Willems, and there is a distributor in Australia around the corner (kinda) from me too. Everyone who mentions it on the AA forums says it works well.

It certainly looks more professional than the Willems. Aren't they just bare boards?

MausBoy said:

http://www.vgwiz.com/a26maxicart.html

There is also the maxicart. Super fast, and it dosn't get easier than this for testing bins.

As far as ease of testing .bins, I'd suggest one of these, from the site above:

http://www.futurlec....MEmulator.shtml

You'd need one of AA's boards, but with this thing I think you'd never need to disconnect stuff to reprogram a cart.

[MausBoy]

I don't like the idea of sticking a tv and a 2600 on my tiny computer desk, or the floor next to it, but I agree it would be a good choice for simplicity and speed if you have the space for a full on 'workstation'.

[nmoog]

SpiceWare, on Sat Jul 1, 2006 3:45 AM, said:

I'd seen it before, but $85 is a lot of money for the limited features when $99 can buy the Krok Cart.

I sent a PM to Albert (Hopefully the right one) asking to be put on the Krok Cart waiting list - but still, I just love the idea of making carts for a couple of Atari fans I know. So far my learning 6502 and '2600 has been kept under wraps from them... I'm set for birthday gift ideas this year!

I was just wondering, I know you can re-use old carts with the AA boards - but can you re-use the old boards if you de-solder the roms? I've got 5 asteroid carts and it just feels wrong to go chucking everything in the bin!