20 replies to this topic

[RikFuzz]

Hello, Atari Programmers!

I'm a designer/illustrator and something I've always wanted to do is design for a 2600 game. By this I mean the stickers, promo poster, packaging etc. Purely as a personal / portfolio thing of course. Anyway, it's something I will be doing regardless, but I'd *really* like it to be a real actual game. Anyone looking through my portfolio wouldn't basically know it was really functional and not just a mock-up but it is more a personal thing in that respect. I'm sure everyone here can relate to that to some degree.

If anyone would be interested in helping me realise this, I'd really appreciate hearing from you. Being a personal thing I can't afford to pay very much, but I know what it's like having people expecting freebies so I'd like to offer to pay for materials and a small amount to show my appreciation.

I've worked on a few games before, including graphics for a couple of (small) commercial games, but I'm a relatively poor programmer, and never worked on anything so dauntingly low-level. This is why I'd prefer to leave the coding side to someone that can actually do it! I can help with the graphics/sound side of things though. I've worked on mobile phone games, so I'm used to tiny sprites and restrictive palattes (not THIS restrictive of course - but will do what ever's possible!).

I plan on starting work on this later this month, I'm not 100% sure on what kind of game I want right now, but I plan to base it upon an animation I made with my other half a while back: http://video.google....p;q=crazy daisy
It actually very loosely takes some inspiration from Howitzer / Outlaw, so perhaps something similar would be appropriate. I'm not very clued up on the technical side of the Atari 2600 so it'd aid me a lot in deciding if you help me to understand the restrictions. For example, I've seen games (like Pitfall) that seem to have 16 unique colours - even the ST only had 16 colours (IIRC), so I'm assuming it was in bands of different palettes, but don't really have a clue.

Many thanks!
Rik

[Dragnerok X]

RikFuzz, on Sun Sep 3, 2006 1:02 PM, said:

Hello, Atari Programmers!

I'm a designer/illustrator and something I've always wanted to do is design for a 2600 game. By this I mean the stickers, promo poster, packaging etc. Purely as a personal / portfolio thing of course. Anyway, it's something I will be doing regardless, but I'd *really* like it to be a real actual game. Anyone looking through my portfolio wouldn't basically know it was really functional and not just a mock-up but it is more a personal thing in that respect. I'm sure everyone here can relate to that to some degree.

If anyone would be interested in helping me realise this, I'd really appreciate hearing from you. Being a personal thing I can't afford to pay very much, but I know what it's like having people expecting freebies so I'd like to offer to pay for materials and a small amount to show my appreciation.

I've worked on a few games before, including graphics for a couple of (small) commercial games, but I'm a relatively poor programmer, and never worked on anything so dauntingly low-level. This is why I'd prefer to leave the coding side to someone that can actually do it! I can help with the graphics/sound side of things though. I've worked on mobile phone games, so I'm used to tiny sprites and restrictive palattes (not THIS restrictive of course - but will do what ever's possible!).

I plan on starting work on this later this month, I'm not 100% sure on what kind of game I want right now, but I plan to base it upon an animation I made with my other half a while back: http://video.google....p;q=crazy daisy
It actually very loosely takes some inspiration from Howitzer / Outlaw, so perhaps something similar would be appropriate. I'm not very clued up on the technical side of the Atari 2600 so it'd aid me a lot in deciding if you help me to understand the restrictions. For example, I've seen games (like Pitfall) that seem to have 16 unique colours - even the ST only had 16 colours (IIRC), so I'm assuming it was in bands of different palettes, but don't really have a clue.

Many thanks!
Rik

Read this. Sorry if it may be a little hard, but it will help you better understand what we programmers feel. Don't be afraid, however, to give us some more info on your idea. It could very well be do-able.

--Dragnerok X

Edited by Dragnerok X, Sun Sep 3, 2006 6:19 PM.

[jbanes]

RikFuzz, on Sun Sep 3, 2006 3:02 PM, said:

I can help with the graphics/sound side of things though. I've worked on mobile phone games, so I'm used to tiny sprites and restrictive palattes (not THIS restrictive of course - but will do what ever's possible!).

You've got two 8 pixel sprites, one color, and a static generator. Ready? Go!

Perhaps you should consider learning about 2600 programming? Batari BASIC is very easy to pick up and get started with. Even if you don't manage to become a good programmer, you can at least learn the ropes. Once you have a good feel for things, perhaps consider collaborating on someone else's project? That way you could help create a game.

Of course, this is assuming you've read Dragnerok X's link and taken it to heart.

[RikFuzz]

Dragnerok X, on Mon Sep 4, 2006 12:12 AM, said:

Read this. Sorry if it may be a liitle hard, but it will help you better understand what we programmers feel. Don't be afraid, however, to give us some more info on your idea. It could very well be do-able.

--Dragnerok X

I can certainly see the subject line putting people off (and was somewhat cringing while writing it) I'll give the link a proper read tomorrow - thanks for passing it on! I've been on the other end of similar requests and know exactly what it's like, so I'd just like to stress that I'd really like to offer some payment and would actually appreciate the work put in.

I'm in the middle of a tight deadline at the moment and would like to start on this project in a couple of weeks, so apologies for the vagueness, I just wanted to see if anyone would actually be interested in helping me and gather a little information on the limitations involved before making ridiculous blueprints for some impossible epic. Having said that I do have a few ideas, so I'll do a proper write up when I get the chance to give you more to go on.

Edited by RikFuzz, Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:59 AM.

[R. Jones]

RikFuzz, on Sun Sep 3, 2006 3:02 PM, said:

[ . . . ] I'm not very clued up on the technical side of the Atari 2600 so it'd aid me a lot in deciding if you help me to understand the restrictions. For example, I've seen games (like Pitfall) that seem to have 16 unique colours - even the ST only had 16 colours (IIRC), so I'm assuming it was in bands of different palettes, but don't really have a clue.

Many thanks!
Rik

Here are a few links that should help:

Andrew Davie's 2600 101 Tutorial
This is a really good explanation of how the 2600 works and how to write games for it. It's kind of technical, so it might be more information than you need.

http://www.atariage....;showentry=1130
Here is a simpler explanation of how the 2600 works. It's more geared to the layman who for whatever reason just wants a better understanding of it.

http://www.atariage......ighlite=+idea
These are some of Adam Tierney's threads. His threads are usually brought up as an example of what a good 2600 game proposal thread should be like.

batari Basic
Depending on what you want to do, bB might be a viable option to create your own game. Take a look at mausboy's graphic demo for his WIP space shooter for anexample of what's possible (graphically) with it.

Best of luck with whatever you do,
- Robert

Edited by R. Jones, Mon Sep 4, 2006 7:36 PM.

[Room 34]

Rik, what is your real objective here: to design the game, or to design the packaging? From your original post, it sounds like the latter.

It's common around here for "n00bz" to show up and say they've got a great idea for a game and just need someone to program it, which generally elicits eye rolling and annoyance and a bunch of links to previous threads where programmers have clearly stated that they already have more ideas than they'll ever have time to program, thank you very much, etc. etc.

But like I said, it sounds more like what you're really interested in is designing the packaging, in which case I'd suggest that instead of trying to push your own game ideas on programmers who don't need or want them, you just check out what's currently happening in the homebrew scene around here. New homebrew games are coming out all the time (well... several per year anyway), and whenever a new one is almost ready to be released, they usually have a label design contest here on AtariAge. Seems like that would be a great opportunity for you to achieve your primary goal in a way that actually works with how things happen in this community.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck!

Edited by Room 34, Mon Sep 4, 2006 9:15 AM.

[RikFuzz]

Thanks so much for the responses. I've had a good read, in the directions you've pointed me, and I feel a little more confident about the project now, so I really appreciate it. Though I had some ideas, I was originally hoping to work with a programmer and refine them to something great for the 2600, rather than display them as complete and risk Simon Cowell style ridicule

After reading some of the stuff you linked me to, I've changed my ideas somewhat - the character I'd hoped to use isn't really suitable for the graphic restrictions of the 2600, and some of my other stuff would work so much better. I've had a heap of work piled on me at last minute, but I'll be back with more info and stuff within a couple of weeks or so. I'm definitely gonna play with Batari basic, it looks great! Having said that I don't really want to shift this project onto the back-burner, so I'm still hoping someone will be interested in working with me.

On a side note, my Atari's coming in the post any day now, so I'm quite excited. I've had a few in the past, but not since before I last moved, and then I had the Jr version.

Room 34, you're right that my main objective is to work on the graphic side of things, however it's important to me for it to tie in with my other works by sharing characters, music, etc. Would love to help out with other people's projects though, so when I get free time, I will certainly follow up on your suggestion.

Many thanks!
Rik

[Robert M]

PM sent!

[SpiceWare]

RikFuzz, on Sun Sep 3, 2006 3:02 PM, said:

an animation I made with my other half a while back: http://video.google....p;q=crazy daisy

Cute

[RikFuzz]

Hi all,

I've recently got back into this project and thought I'd share some progress - though admittedly quite limited so far. I never did have any luck enlisting any help, but bAtari basic has been really great.

I realise there's not much to see so far, but hopefuly you'll atleast enjoy the music - it's what's taken longest to get right.

 crazydaisy.bin   4K   90 downloads

Many thanks!
Rik

[Bakasama]

This project looks interesting. Based on the flash animation, the game seems to be about a cute little girl blowing tanks up. Am I guessing correct?

About getting help, I suppose if you put enough time into it and this game shows promise, I think you'll get more help.

[yorgle]

What concept from the flash animation are you hoping to convert into a game? No offense, but the concept of a character moving around shooting at something is hardly original. Let's face it, the appeal of the animation comes not from the concept of someone shooting something else, but from basically three elements: 1) movie-like visualization in 3D; 2) stylistic representation of the characters; and 3) surrealism of the large blue bird. I'm not much of a programmer, but it's plain to me that none of these elements is particularly suited to the 2600's limited capabilities. IMHO, a game should not require an accompanying comic book to explain what is on the screen (e.g., swordquest).

[RikFuzz]

yorgle, on Thu Jun 7, 2007 4:44 PM, said:

What concept from the flash animation are you hoping to convert into a game? No offense, but the concept of a character moving around shooting at something is hardly original. Let's face it, the appeal of the animation comes not from the concept of someone shooting something else, but from basically three elements: 1) movie-like visualization in 3D; 2) stylistic representation of the characters; and 3) surrealism of the large blue bird. I'm not much of a programmer, but it's plain to me that none of these elements is particularly suited to the 2600's limited capabilities. IMHO, a game should not require an accompanying comic book to explain what is on the screen (e.g., swordquest).

I suppose you're quite right - it's difficult to represent anything that really resembles the animation with the limitations of the console, more so than I'd anticipated, and shoot em ups aren't very original. I hope both issues can be built upon from what's been done so far, but ending up with a hopefuly good but not very original game that somewhat relys on other media to set the scene wouldn't be a bad enough case to merit dropping the whole project now. It's pretty fun to work on, so even if it's ultimately a little pointless I wouldn't personally consider it a wasted effort. Thanks for your honesty though, definately something to think about.

[yorgle]

RikFuzz, on Fri Jun 8, 2007 5:11 AM, said:

yorgle, on Thu Jun 7, 2007 4:44 PM, said:

What concept from the flash animation are you hoping to convert into a game? No offense, but the concept of a character moving around shooting at something is hardly original. Let's face it, the appeal of the animation comes not from the concept of someone shooting something else, but from basically three elements: 1) movie-like visualization in 3D; 2) stylistic representation of the characters; and 3) surrealism of the large blue bird. I'm not much of a programmer, but it's plain to me that none of these elements is particularly suited to the 2600's limited capabilities. IMHO, a game should not require an accompanying comic book to explain what is on the screen (e.g., swordquest).

I suppose you're quite right - it's difficult to represent anything that really resembles the animation with the limitations of the console, more so than I'd anticipated, and shoot em ups aren't very original. I hope both issues can be built upon from what's been done so far, but ending up with a hopefuly good but not very original game that somewhat relys on other media to set the scene wouldn't be a bad enough case to merit dropping the whole project now. It's pretty fun to work on, so even if it's ultimately a little pointless I wouldn't personally consider it a wasted effort. Thanks for your honesty though, definately something to think about.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the exercise is wasted time if you learn something in the process and have fun doing it. I've spent countless hours creating my own version of Atari's Adventure even though it's been done to death by countless others. Was it time wasted? Well, not in my opinion. I learned a little 6502 assembly, some electronics, and got to play Atari again. Before I began, I could barely get a lightbulb changed. By the end, I was burning eproms and making cartridges. What I've found is that the more realistic you are with your expectations as to the result, you're much less likely to drop the project. Carry on and good luck with it.

[Nukey Shay]

Actually, a good share of games require a bit of a story to understand what the heck is going on. Speaking of Adventure, that's a good example. A movable square, a sprite that looks like a duck, and an arrow pointing to the left doesn't really explain much. As long as you can boil the gameplay down to a paragraph or so of explaination, what the sprites look like is of little importance (tho generally, the more easily-recognisable, the better).
Kudos on the music, however

[yorgle]

Nukey Shay, on Fri Jun 8, 2007 10:26 AM, said:

Actually, a good share of games require a bit of a story to understand what the heck is going on. Speaking of Adventure, that's a good example. A movable square, a sprite that looks like a duck, and an arrow pointing to the left doesn't really explain much. As long as you can boil the gameplay down to a paragraph or so of explaination, what the sprites look like is of little importance (tho generally, the more easily-recognisable, the better).
Kudos on the music, however

A bit of story is ok with me too, but if you want to read a story, buy a book. If you want to play a videogame, you shouldn't have to read a book first. Give an 8 year old Adventure without any explanation and within minutes he'll figure out what 90% of the game is about. He'd probably agree that the dragons look duck-like, but he would assume they're supposed to be dragons simply by how they act and he'd understand that they are to be avoided. To me, that's the mark of a good game concept. About the only thing you'd probably have to tell him is to find the chalice and bring it back to the yellow castle. (In fact, you probably wouldn't even have to tell him it's to put it inside the yellow castle, just tell him to put it where it belongs). The "why" of the game can be expressed in one sentence. The rest of the "story" comes from our cultural familiarity with the quest story. Every fairy tale a kid ever read or had read to him fills in the details.

With respect to Crazy Daisy, explaining the "why" of the game (why should a girl be shooting at tanks) is not so easy. I'm not even sure the animation does a good job of that- except they appear to be invading a clean, green city from an ugly, smog covered city in the distance and that alone should be reason to shoot them. What the large blue bird is about is beyond my capacity to understand. Don't get me wrong, it may have a purpose, but without an elaborate explanation in a booklet, it would be difficult to explain through graphics or gameplay.

RikFuzz: The bottom line is, it's your project and if you think it can be done, then go for it. That's how great games are made. Please don't take anything I say as anything but constructive criticism. I'm learning this system myself and am by no means proficient in programming or gamemaking, having only an elaborate hack to my credit (and 99% of that was due almost exclusively to the work and help from Nukey Shay). There are great programmers on this site and if you give them an idea that's doable and not just a pipe-dream, they're quick to offer advice and support.

[Nukey Shay]

Obviously, Daisy is shooting at unwelcome invaders advancing on her city. Don't children have massive firepower where you live?

Can't really be called an uncommon plot device in anime, anyway

[yorgle]

Nukey Shay, on Fri Jun 8, 2007 2:39 PM, said:

Obviously, Daisy is shooting at unwelcome invaders advancing on her city. Don't children have massive firepower where you live?

Can't really be called an uncommon plot device in anime, anyway

Geez, maybe they do. I know my own kids are capable of reducing our house to rubble in a matter of minutes.

[Bakasama]

The idea of a cute little girl blasting tanks does sound a little odd but after seeing a bunch of Japanese style video games, I really do think there's a potentially fun game in there somewhere.

[codyr783]

Give her a M-16 or AK-47.There's nothing hotter than a chick with a gun!

[Hornpipe2]

RikFuzz, on Sun Sep 3, 2006 3:02 PM, said:

an animation I made with my other half a while back: http://video.google....p;q=crazy daisy

Rik

I know of you! You did some artwork for OneUp Studios in the past, yes?