111 replies to this topic

[jpfalcon2003]

I voted sinner with his cheap ass self. I got my 7800 in XMAS 1988 and didn't have it long before game production was coming to an end. It felt like I had just got the system. Had a few good games from 1989-1990 for the 2600 and 7800 though.

[Red_Machine]

I vote neither. I doubt warner could have kept Atari afloat as long as Tramiel did, but he was a tight bastard who wanted to keep as much money in his pocket as possible. Like the removal of the expansion port on the 7800, WFT^^? And the virtually non-existent video game library for it.

I have enormous respect for CBM as they managed to sell more units in the history of computing, even though the C64 was outstripped by passing butterflies if you get what I mean. I think if Atari had gotten Amiga, CBM would have found some way to bounce back and steal the market from them; I'm sure the C65 would have been far superior to the Amiga if it had ever gotten out of the prototype room.

Just my twi cents; or pennies, as I am British...

[ninjarabbit]

I think one of the main reasons is disliked so much was because he was the polar opposite of Nolan Bushnell in pretty much every aspect.

[Kepone]

Saint.

Jack was human and you can't take that away from him.

He survived the freakin' Holocaust for chrissakes!

[Trip_Cannon]

Kepone, on Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:48 PM, said:

Jack was human and you can't take that away from him.

You sure about that?

[supercat]

Red_Machine, on Mon Nov 6, 2006 9:56 AM, said:

Like the removal of the expansion port on the 7800, WFT^^?

From a technical perspective, what was the 7800's expansion port good for? It would allow one to produce a composite/S-video mod that would operate in MARIA mode only, but was the selection of signals there useful for anything? Eliminating that connector makes a lot more sense than populating it. If they'd run some of the unused RIOT I/O pins there, there might have been reason to keep it, but given the signals it had, what was the point?

[Bryan]

My 2 big complaints:

1. The Tramiels were notorious for ripping people off. Their philosophy was, "want your money? then sue us!" I've heard numerous stories about how they were blacklisted by others in the industry. Heck, they put Synapse out of business when they refused to pay for contractual software Warner had commissioned.

2. They did nothing to work on Atari's image. It was always "cheap cheap cheap!" Apple could charge a premium for completely retarded 8-bit hardware because they worked on their image.

-Bry

[NovaXpress]

I just want to know what he did with the damn sword.

[ninjarabbit]

To somewhat defend Tramiel's cheapness Atari was bleeding money when he took it over from Warner and cutting expenses and keeping costs down was probably the best way to stop the bleeding.

[Kepone]

I'm just defending Tramiel as a human being and not as a businessman.

[Jetboot Jack]

In my view Atari was a train wreck BEFORE Jack took over.

After he came along he was brutal, but he needed to be to revive the corpse - Atari was bleeding money...

He may have made a mistake to NOT make Amiga an Atari machine, but I had a wonderful ST life, and despite it not being as powerful on paper it was a great family of hardware - reliable, powerful and cheap.

And I am greatful for the 130Xe and the extra life he gave to the 8bit and all the new games Atari published (Airball, Mario Bros, Eagles Nest, Star Raiders II etc etc)...

As to the 7800 - it was dead before it even launched in my opinion - coming out in '84 or not - Nintendo had a different gameplan, and Atari would not have been able to keep up I reckon.

sTeVE

[Atarifever]

Jetboot Jack, on Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:42 PM, said:

In my view Atari was a train wreck BEFORE Jack took over.

After he came along he was brutal, but he needed to be to revive the corpse - Atari was bleeding money...

He may have made a mistake to NOT make Amiga an Atari machine, but I had a wonderful ST life, and despite it not being as powerful on paper it was a great family of hardware - reliable, powerful and cheap.

And I am greatful for the 130Xe and the extra life he gave to the 8bit and all the new games Atari published (Airball, Mario Bros, Eagles Nest, Star Raiders II etc etc)...

As to the 7800 - it was dead before it even launched in my opinion - coming out in '84 or not - Nintendo had a different gameplan, and Atari would not have been able to keep up I reckon.

sTeVE

I think your sig. says it all really. Look at all the hardware we'd be without or that would be missing many of the best games if not for Jack's Atari.

[Trip_Cannon]

Jetboot Jack, on Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:42 PM, said:

He may have made a mistake to NOT make Amiga an Atari machine, but I had a wonderful ST life, and despite it not being as powerful on paper it was a great family of hardware - reliable, powerful and cheap.

From what I understand, Amiga never wanted to do business with Atari. EVER. So when Commodore offered, they turned around and worked with them. Same thing applied to the Lynx. They didn't exactly want to sell to Atari but had to in the end to get it made.

[HP Atari King of Michigan]

I don't really think he was a sinner, but he sure wasn't a saint! The 7800 did sell well, maybe not as well as Nintendo's NES or the Sega Master System, but it had a following. And let's not forget the promotion he did with the Lynx. Sure, he was a cheap-ass, but he was also cleaning up what mess the Czar left behind.

[Sauron]

The Tramiels get slagged way more than they deserve. Atari most likely would have been auctioned off piecemeal or swallowed up and virtually buried by Nintendo or Sega if Jack didn't buy them out for his own personal purposes of revenge. Looking back at literature during that time period, Jack had quite a bit of respect in the industry at that point, so it was a no-brainer for Warner to sell Atari to him. Keep in mind that the ST actually was pretty successful throughout the mid to late 80's in Europe, which isn't exactly evident to most American Atari enthusiasts. Atari didn't really start going downhill until Jack handed the reigns over to his sons.

Having said that, I voted him as a sinner...he never had much interest in the console side of things. Eh, no one's perfect.

[mos6507]

Atari survived but as a shadow of its former self. Kind of the Golan Globus of computers, dragging the Atari reputation for quality down. I think the only new product from the Tramiels that had consistent first-rate quality was the Lynx and its games.

[Atarifever]

Well, here's some more proof, from the "Ultimate Console Database", that people believe what they want to about Jack.

Ultimate Console Database said:

THE RANT: Around 1984 after the crash Nolan Bushnell sold Atari to a man named Jack Tramiel and went on to start the Chuck E.Cheese pizza chain. At the time there were already warehouses full of 7800 game machines ready to go but Tramiel (who sounds like an jerk) had some kind of dramatic press conference where he threw all of Atari's past consoles on the floor and announced that the company would focus solely on the home computer market from now on.

[sarcasm] A press conference. Where he threw "all of Atari's past consoles on the floor." Oh, and he bought the company from Bushnell himself. [/sarcasm]

This leads the guy to say

Quote

That's what happens when some fool with no brains takes over your company. I've never met the man and I'm sure he's a nice person but I wouldn't let this bozo run a hot dog cart.

[sarcasm] The bozo who bought the company from Bushnell and who held elaborate press conferences to throw all of the previous Atari systems on the floor. [/sarcasm]

The legend of Tramiel is so much worse than the man that people don't even get facts straight before knocking him.

Edited by Atarifever, Fri Dec 1, 2006 1:09 PM.

[Atarifever]

Here's the article by the way.
http://ultimateconso.../atari_7800.htm

Edited by Atarifever, Fri Dec 1, 2006 4:51 AM.

[Retro Rogue]

Atarifever, on Fri Dec 1, 2006 4:48 AM, said:

Well, here's some more proof, from the "Ultimate Console Database", that people believe what they want to about Jack.

Actually, its just proof that anyone can put up anything they want on the web and anyone will believe it.

Quote

Ultimate Console Database said:

THE RANT: Around 1984 after the crash Nolan Bushnell sold Atari to a man named Jack Tramiel and went on to start the Chuck E.Cheese pizza chain. At the time there were already warehouses full of 7800 game machines ready to go but Tramiel (who sounds like an jerk) had some kind of dramatic press conference where he threw all of Atari's past consoles on the floor and announced that the company would focus solely on the home computer market from now on.

A press conference. Where he threw "all of Atari's past consoles on the floor." Oh, and he bought the company from Bushnell himself.

WTF? Never happened. Tramiel bought the company from Warner Communications, Nolan left Atari in late 1978.

Likewise, there was no "press conference" where he threw all the consoles on the floor. There was a private meeting with GCC members where he threw their 7800 on the floor to punctuate his point that gaming would not be the main focus anymore and he wouldn't honor the previous contract. They then entered on again, off again negotiations for the 7800 over the following 2 years which were finally completed in 1986.

Quote

The legend of Tramiel is so much worse than the man that people don't even get facts straight before knocking him.

Ironic that you're posting that statement.

Edited by wgungfu, Fri Dec 1, 2006 11:49 AM.

[Retro Rogue]

Atarifever, on Fri Dec 1, 2006 4:51 AM, said:

Here's the article by the way.
http://ultimateconso.../atari_7800.htm

Which has to be the worst, most unfactual attempt at an Atari 7800 entry I've ever seen. Come on, statements like "The 7800 came packaged with this unique cart which allowed you to save your high scores"?!?! It was never released by Atari or put in to production. Curt Vendel and Gary Rubio (GCC), on their own, decided to release a limited run of 120 High Score cartridges about 6 years ago. That's even a picture of it in the "entry" where "© 2001 Retro Engineering Inc., A www.atari-history.com Company" is clearly visible in the picture.

[Atarifever]

wgungfu, on Fri Dec 1, 2006 8:48 PM, said:

Atarifever, on Fri Dec 1, 2006 4:48 AM, said:

Well, here's some more proof, from the "Ultimate Console Database", that people believe what they want to about Jack.

Actually, its just proof that anyone can put up anything they want on the web and anyone will believe it.

Quote

Ultimate Console Database said:

THE RANT: Around 1984 after the crash Nolan Bushnell sold Atari to a man named Jack Tramiel and went on to start the Chuck E.Cheese pizza chain. At the time there were already warehouses full of 7800 game machines ready to go but Tramiel (who sounds like an jerk) had some kind of dramatic press conference where he threw all of Atari's past consoles on the floor and announced that the company would focus solely on the home computer market from now on.

A press conference. Where he threw "all of Atari's past consoles on the floor." Oh, and he bought the company from Bushnell himself.

WTF? Never happened. Tramiel bought the company from Warner Communications, Nolan left Atari in late 1978.

Likewise, there was no "press conference" where he threw all the consoles on the floor. There was a private meeting with GCC members where he threw their 7800 on the floor to punctuate his point that gaming would not be the main focus anymore and he wouldn't honor the previous contract. They then entered on again, off again negotiations for the 7800 over the following 2 years which were finally completed in 1986.

Quote

The legend of Tramiel is so much worse than the man that people don't even get facts straight before knocking him.

Ironic that you're posting that statement.

You know I knew those things were false, and that was why I posted this right? Am I misreading your reply, or do you think I posted this because it was interesting on an informative level? My name is Atarifever here, and I have been coming here for a couple years, and I do hang out in the 7800 forums. One would have to assume I absorbed enough to see the fallicies here through osmosis alone even were I not a 7800 fan. I almost started a whole topic just to point out how wrong this was, but figured it fit this topic better.

Surround my "A Press conference..." with [sarcasm] [/sarcasm], and the same for the bozo comment. Sometimes I guess I should be clearer about when I'm making fun of someone, although I thought my introductory sentence made that clear.

Edited by Atarifever, Fri Dec 1, 2006 12:33 PM.

[Retro Rogue]

Atarifever, on Fri Dec 1, 2006 12:26 PM, said:

Surround my "A Press conference..." with [sarcasm] [/sarcasm], and the same for the bozo comment. Sometimes I guess I should be clearer about when I'm making fun of someone, although I thought my introductory sentence made that clear.

My apologies, I took it wrong.

[Foxsolo2000]

wgungfu, on Fri Dec 1, 2006 6:47 PM, said:

Atarifever, on Fri Dec 1, 2006 12:26 PM, said:

Surround my "A Press conference..." with [sarcasm] [/sarcasm], and the same for the bozo comment. Sometimes I guess I should be clearer about when I'm making fun of someone, although I thought my introductory sentence made that clear.

My apologies, I took it wrong.

Incredibly easy to do on here

[Atarifever]

wgungfu, on Fri Dec 1, 2006 9:47 PM, said:

Atarifever, on Fri Dec 1, 2006 12:26 PM, said:

Surround my "A Press conference..." with [sarcasm] [/sarcasm], and the same for the bozo comment. Sometimes I guess I should be clearer about when I'm making fun of someone, although I thought my introductory sentence made that clear.

My apologies, I took it wrong.

That's alright, in re-reading it I realized I'd left it open to that interpretation. I'm going to fix the original now.

That entry really does need to be updated in "The Ultimate Console database". Anyone know anyone involved in that site?

One other thing about the 7800 on another site that kind of bugs me is the end of the decription on the "phosphor dot fossils" website.

Quote

Due to its brief life on the market, there were very few games created for the Atari 7800; therefore, this section may appear to be short on reviews.

Then they provide this list of games:

Quote

# Asteroids
# Ballblazer
# Donkey Kong
# Donkey Kong Jr.
# Galaga
# Joust
# Ms. Pac-Man
# Pole Position II
# Robotron: 2084
# Xevious

Some of those don't even have reviews on the site, so it makes it look like this is a complete list of games. The library is small, but not that small. As well, there's no similar warning before Odyssey 2 reviews, and it doesn't have a much bigger library.
Here's the link.
http://www.thelogboo...osphor/atari78/

[Rik]

Jack Tramiel was no different than any other CEO or EXEC,which is to get in,make your millions,and get out before the dirty laundry gets aired.