16 replies to this topic

[PressureCooker2600]

i'm assuming hacks take a lot less time to do than homebrews. about on average how long would a hack take to make and then on average a homebrew?

[atwwong]

Hacks can be done in a couple hours, but I've spent almost 3 years on a hack, but that is above average. Nukey has spent a lot of time on Hack'em, which is almost like a homebrew.

Some programmers have spent several years, on and off, working on their homebrews.

It depends on how much time you want to spend, especially if you are enjoying it.

[supercat]

atwwong, on Thu Nov 2, 2006 10:25 PM, said:

It depends on how much time you want to spend, especially if you are enjoying it.

Another thing to consider is the "Ninety-Ninety rule of project scheduling": the first 90% of a job takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the other 90%.

Though actually I think the first 90% takes 90% of the time, the next 9% takes the other 90%, and the next 1% takes the remaining 90%.

Strat-O-Gems Deluxe, my one commercially-released game, probably took about 40 hours to get playable, another 40 of refinement prior to its entry into the 4K minigame competition, and then over 100 more hours to add the "Deluxe" refinements.

[jpfalcon2003]

Stratogems Deluxe is awesome. I have this one.

[Nukey Shay]

atwwong, on Thu Nov 2, 2006 8:25 PM, said:

Hacks can be done in a couple hours, but I've spent almost 3 years on a hack, but that is above average. Nukey has spent a lot of time on Hack'em, which is almost like a homebrew.

Some programmers have spent several years, on and off, working on their homebrews.

It depends on how much time you want to spend, especially if you are enjoying it.

I agree. My hacks generally don't have a set time frame (I set one for Hack'Em once, and it was the wrong thing to do...since the program was still "broken"). I just add this and that until free space runs out, and then try to find more free space. All the while (in this case) trying to make it as close to the arcade game as possible. At this point, I've run out of ideas for the free space still left in that hack.

[vdub_bobby]

supercat, on Thu Nov 2, 2006 10:18 PM, said:

Strat-O-Gems Deluxe, my one commercially-released game, probably took about 40 hours to get playable, another 40 of refinement prior to its entry into the 4K minigame competition, and then over 100 more hours to add the "Deluxe" refinements.

That sounds accurate for my homebrews as well: ~40 hours to get something that is playable, another 40 to add the necessary support (sounds, console-switch support, etc.), and then another agonizing 100 hours to put a final polish on it so that you aren't embarrassed to sell it to people.

EDIT: That last step is where most WIP homebrews go to die. That's where Man Goes Down is, Master of Arcturus, Incoming!, Fade Out, LoopCart, Reflex; all sitting in endless limbo.

Edited by vdub_bobby, Thu Dec 7, 2006 4:37 PM.

[batari]

vdub_bobby, on Thu Dec 7, 2006 5:32 PM, said:

supercat, on Thu Nov 2, 2006 10:18 PM, said:

Strat-O-Gems Deluxe, my one commercially-released game, probably took about 40 hours to get playable, another 40 of refinement prior to its entry into the 4K minigame competition, and then over 100 more hours to add the "Deluxe" refinements.

That sounds accurate for my homebrews as well: ~40 hours to get something that is playable, another 40 to add the necessary support (sounds, console-switch support, etc.), and then another agonizing 100 hours to put a final polish on it so that you aren't embarrassed to sell it to people.

EDIT: That last step is where most WIP homebrews go to die. That's where Man Goes Down is, Master of Arcturus, Incoming!, Fade Out, LoopCart, Reflex; all sitting in endless limbo.

Every one of my WIP homebrews is in that stage Unfortunately, projects become less fun and more like real work once in that stage.

[mos6507]

batari, on Thu Dec 7, 2006 3:02 PM, said:

vdub_bobby, on Thu Dec 7, 2006 5:32 PM, said:

supercat, on Thu Nov 2, 2006 10:18 PM, said:

Strat-O-Gems Deluxe, my one commercially-released game, probably took about 40 hours to get playable, another 40 of refinement prior to its entry into the 4K minigame competition, and then over 100 more hours to add the "Deluxe" refinements.

That sounds accurate for my homebrews as well: ~40 hours to get something that is playable, another 40 to add the necessary support (sounds, console-switch support, etc.), and then another agonizing 100 hours to put a final polish on it so that you aren't embarrassed to sell it to people.

EDIT: That last step is where most WIP homebrews go to die. That's where Man Goes Down is, Master of Arcturus, Incoming!, Fade Out, LoopCart, Reflex; all sitting in endless limbo.

Every one of my WIP homebrews is in that stage Unfortunately, projects become less fun and more like real work once in that stage.

Isn't Man Goes Down considered done?

I've been waiting for Incoming for a long time.

[Uzumaki]

Man Goes Down is still WIP and the author was sick last I heard. So it's sort of on hold.

Making a new game from scratch does take a lot of work. Even back in the old day when BASIC was the "main" language, I probably spent more times on a single original game than all hacked games combined.

[djmips]

It takes an incredible discipline and stubborness to take a game to a 'final' shipable state. This is probably true of many endeavours but I've really only experienced it on game projects. I think this is on area that tends to differentiate experienced game developers from their more junior counterparts. The ability to finish.

I can really get locked in and push hard to finish something but it does really take something out of you, and I understand why so many half finished projects are littered about the landscape.

One effective strategy is 'lowering your standards'. I appreciate perfection and projects where standards are kept high ( Ladybug, Stratogems ) but on the other hand we would have more cool games if authors were willing to compromise a little bit.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Hacks are often a matter of just a few minutes, even the simpliest, bBASIC homebrews take a few hours.

I suppose the average time ratio between hacks and homebrews is around 1:100.

[Cafeman]

some homebrews take years to finally be done...

[Dan Iacovelli]

depends on what type of hack your doing:
a graphics hack aprox 2 or 3 days(or less if you know what you doing)
a hack with graphics and game play prob 2 or 3 months.
my hack of keystone kappers I think took about a couple days,since it was a graphic hack only and I had problems with the missile/helicopter
and I had fix the kop so the missile will be able touch him.
if you doing home brew expect about ayear or so, because first you need the idea and your do a rough draft on paper then you need to know how to program it for the 2600(or what ever system)
my current project: is basicly a port of game I did on the ti.

[supercat]

Cafeman, on Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:23 PM, said:

some homebrews take years to finally be done...

No kidding. Strat-O-Gems took more than eleven, though I'll admit I wasn't exactly working on it most of that time.

[djmips]

Some stats I kept...

I started the BLiP/LEDhead football project on February 12th 2005 and wrapped it up on Dec 09th 2006.

There were 58 revisions.

Most of the work was done in the evenings in approximately 5 day bursts (when I wasn't busy at work work)
I worked on it on 24 different days during that time period.

I'd estimate around 100 hours of work.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Thrust took ~18 month, but with a longer break (~6 month) inbetween. Revisions? Hundrets!

[grafixbmp]

This is so true. On the many projects I have worked on in the past, I guess none of them ever got to a finished stage. Some ideas I never even started coding but the ones i did start I wouldn't finish simply due to the fact I would botch the game engine and logic in a way that was harder than it sould have been. It gets hard to look at the big picture when creating a game in that you are working on one element of it and may easily overlook some other part. But I am impatient and want to see it work when it isn't at a poit for that. I use to run the programs untill they would crash and do some more then run it again untill it would crash at a later spot in the run. This isn't the way to do it though.

I belive that a 2 or more party system would work best when making a game. Sure you don't have full say on what goes, but it makes the work alot easier when you tag team. When one person gets tired, the other can do some work on it for a while. And when one has a problem accomplishing something, the other can give a fresh perspective. The key is to note everything so that the other person can follow along well enough so they can start work on it ASAP. But another sad thing comes into play when one is more dedicated to it than the other person then that can make them unrelyable tward the end goal.