231 replies to this topic

[Cybergoth]

vdub_bobby, on Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:49 PM, said:

Added fire button boost. Increases your speed by about 50% but the timer runs down 8 times faster! Thoughts? Does it make it too easy now? Does it add much?

Ah, this is the news I was waiting for! I think it's a lot better now. I can even beat the first "normal" level with less than 7 lives now

I was just about to ask for a switch to turn the music off, when I discovered it already does with the b/w switch

Will you add a death-sound? It feels like it's missing one. Also when the music is off, could the elevators possibly do short, quiet "ticks" when they reverse?

An idea for the kids mode: Have the maiden stop, when the joystick is centered. Maybe make the current kids mode the novice mode then

BTW: Once you have a PAL version - I'm ready for testing it on the real thing!

[vdub_bobby]

Cybergoth, on Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:24 AM, said:

vdub_bobby, on Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:49 PM, said:

Added fire button boost. Increases your speed by about 50% but the timer runs down 8 times faster! Thoughts? Does it make it too easy now? Does it add much?

Ah, this is the news I was waiting for! I think it's a lot better now. I can even beat the first "normal" level with less than 7 lives now

Yeah. I was skeptical at first, but I think it adds tons to the gameplay. Plus it makes testing easier, since I can burn through the levels pretty quickly.

What are your thoughts on the score penalty when using the speed boost? Too much?

Quote

I was just about to ask for a switch to turn the music off, when I discovered it already does with the b/w switch

Will you add a death-sound? It feels like it's missing one. Also when the music is off, could the elevators possibly do short, quiet "ticks" when they reverse?

There is a death-sound already, sort-of, more of a tune than a sound. I was inspired by SMB. Unless everybody hates it I'm not going to change it nor layer a sound effect on top of the death tune. EDIT: On 2nd thought, I'll think about this a bit.

As for elevator tick sounds - that's a great idea. I'll look into that. I tried it long ago and it was a bit overwhelming, but I'll look into it again.

Quote

An idea for the kids mode: Have the maiden stop, when the joystick is centered. Maybe make the current kids mode the novice mode then

I'll think about it...hmm. Shouldn't be too hard...

Quote

BTW: Once you have a PAL version - I'm ready for testing it on the real thing!

Excellent!

And thanks for the comments.

Edited by vdub_bobby, Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:39 PM.

[Cybergoth]

vdub_bobby, on Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:36 PM, said:

What are your thoughts on the score penalty when using the speed boost? Too much?

Hm... tough question. When you boost it looks like your bonus is going down the drain in next to no time, but on the other hand you don't do it that often. I think it's ok. You're definitely motivated to use it sparsely, which is good I think

[seemo]

Hi vdub_bobby,
the maid animation is very nice and the speed boost is GREAT !!!!

The music also has a very good 'arcade' feeling, it reminds me the countless hours I spent in a bar playing videogames

I know you wanted to make the motion continuous, but sometimes I'd like to be able to 'stop' my Maid in the space between two elevators, because I have difficulties with the timing required to avoid multiple elevators 'in a row'. Could this become a gameplay option ? Or for one floor out of two (maybe there's wax on one floor, so the Maid slides - the color of the floor could show this) ?

The boost drains the bonus also when the maid is 'still', avoiding this would also avoid to drain the boost when you press fire to start a new game.

The boost keeps working also when the bonus goes to 0... is this right ? Otherwise, you could slow down the 'drain' of the bonus, but once it's gone, the boost is gone, too.

Congratulations, I am enjoying this game a lot !!!
Simone

[vdub_bobby]

Update:  ElevatorsAmiss20070413.bin   4K   78 downloads

Changes: On CHILD difficulty your maid will stop when you release the joystick. On NOVICE difficulty you begin with only 4 elevators, like CHILD. After some testing on real hardware last night, confirmed that the colors were too dark, so brightened them up. Also noticed that my scanline count jumped by one very briefly when you complete a level with 7 elevators. Fixed that.

Still have 1 byte of RAM free and about 100 bytes of ROM.

I'll probably try to add the elevator ticks when the music is off. It is maybe possible that I could change the kernel to accomodate different level colors but I don't think I have the ROM to do it. Plus - I think I'm going to say that the time for kernel changes has passed.

I'm happy with the elevator colors changing as a substitute for that.

[Cybergoth]

vdub_bobby, on Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:17 PM, said:

Changes: On CHILD difficulty your maid will stop when you release the joystick.

Uihjah... that works a lot better than I thought it would. The stopping is a way cool feature, as it saves you that silly joystick waggling when stuck inbetween two elevators

vdub_bobby, on Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:17 PM, said:

I'm happy with the elevator colors changing as a substitute for that.

I think it should change colors the moment the maid returns to the bottom. It feels pretty unrealistic that the colors change while she is still on the floor.

BTW: Since TJ reported a lag, I think I experience that too. Sometimes the maid does turn a pixel too late it seems. But that might be just Z26, it is lagging e.g. in Dragonfire as well. So it'll be interesting to do some real machine tests.

I can also confirm Seemos report that starting the game with the fire button will boost away some bonus.

vdub_bobby, on Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:36 PM, said:

There is a death-sound already, sort-of, more of a tune than a sound. I was inspired by SMB. Unless everybody hates it I'm not going to change it nor layer a sound effect on top of the death tune. EDIT: On 2nd thought, I'll think about this a bit.

It's probably not that important and maybe just me. When I see a sprite dying near an elevator, my subconscious is always kinda expecting the "AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!!" from Impossible Mission

[vdub_bobby]

Cybergoth, on Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:08 PM, said:

I think it should change colors the moment the maid returns to the bottom. It feels pretty unrealistic that the colors change while she is still on the floor.

Good point. I'll see about that.

Quote

BTW: Since TJ reported a lag, I think I experience that too. Sometimes the maid does turn a pixel too late it seems. But that might be just Z26, it is lagging e.g. in Dragonfire as well. So it'll be interesting to do some real machine tests.

You know - I am seeing the same thing, but only in z26. Very weird. I'll do more testing over the weekend w/ my Krocodile Cart and see how it plays on real hardware.

Quote

I can also confirm Seemos report that starting the game with the fire button will boost away some bonus.

Yeah. /sheepish
I had noticed that but hoped no one else would notice or care. I'll take care of that.

Also, I'm playing around with a "tick" sound when the elevators change direction and I just don't like it. I'll test it on hardware and mess with it some more, though.

Thanks for the comments!

[SpiceWare]

Just played it with my Krok Cart - Nice! I think the speed boost really makes the game, I was always getting annoyed when I played before.

Nathan's floor coloring idea is great, the elevator/stair coloring is a nice compromise.

[Cybergoth]

vdub_bobby, on Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:50 PM, said:

Yeah. /sheepish
I had noticed that but hoped no one else would notice or care. I'll take care of that.

The logic seems to be tricky here at first thought, but on second thought the boosting code just needs to be skipped when the maiden is standing precisely on the leftmost position on the bottom floor, or?

vdub_bobby, on Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:50 PM, said:

Also, I'm playing around with a "tick" sound when the elevators change direction and I just don't like it. I'll test it on hardware and mess with it some more, though.

Just forget about it then

One more thing: Why that odd RESET/SELECT handling?

Why not have SELECT immediately stop the game and switch to the next variant, while RESET immediately starts into a new game with the current variant, just like any other 2600 game does?

[seemo]

vdub_bobby, on Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:17 PM, said:

Changes: On CHILD difficulty your maid will stop when you release the joystick.

Thanks a lot !!!

Simone

Edited by seemo, Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:46 AM.

[Cybergoth]

This is a rather silly thought I had: Once you beat a level, have the maid using the leftmost elevator to ride down to the bottom again

[PressureCooker2600]

Any thoughts on who's going to illustrate the manual or design it?

Maybe Nathan?

[vdub_bobby]

Update!  ElevatorsAmiss20070414.bin   4K   70 downloads

Changes: tweaked colors, added elevator change-of-direction sound effect when music isn't playing, changed scoring.

Any comments on the new colors:


Old scoring: you got what was left of the timer when you completed a floor and got the level*100 plus a difficulty bonus (0, 200, 400, 600) when you completed a level.
New scoring: you get what's left of the timer *plus* a difficulty bonus (0, 20, 40, 60) when you complete a floor and get the level*100 when you complete a level.

On normal difficulty, I average a timer bonus of ~50 per floor, plus the difficulty bonus (40 per floor); adds up to about 700 points per level. First level I get a 100 point bonus, 2nd level 200 pts, etc. So after 10 levels I'd have a score of about 12,700.
You wouldn't hit 100,000 until about level 40, and you'd roll the score around level 140.

How does that sound? I tend to think it increases too slowly at the beginning, but I'm not sure.

Cybergoth, on Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:55 PM, said:

vdub_bobby, on Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:50 PM, said:

Yeah. /sheepish
I had noticed that but hoped no one else would notice or care. I'll take care of that.

The logic seems to be tricky here at first thought, but on second thought the boosting code just needs to be skipped when the maiden is standing precisely on the leftmost position on the bottom floor, or?

Oh, not too hard. I have a bit that determines if the fair maid is moving or not; I'll just skip the boost stuff if she ain't moving.

I did a bunch of work on this over the weekend, but I forgot about this. Have to wait for the next update.

Quote

vdub_bobby, on Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:50 PM, said:

Also, I'm playing around with a "tick" sound when the elevators change direction and I just don't like it. I'll test it on hardware and mess with it some more, though.

Just forget about it then

Maybe - let me know what you think of what's in there now.

Quote

One more thing: Why that odd RESET/SELECT handling?

Because...um...because I didn't put a lot of thought into it?

I'll take a look at that code for the next update.

[vdub_bobby]

PressureCooker2600, on Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:07 AM, said:

Any thoughts on who's going to illustrate the manual or design it?

Maybe Nathan?

Depends...

I'd like to have a label contest.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

vdub_bobby, on Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:11 PM, said:

PressureCooker2600, on Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:07 AM, said:

Any thoughts on who's going to illustrate the manual or design it?

Maybe Nathan?

Depends...

I'd like to have a label contest.

Ok, Nathan then.

[vdub_bobby]

Thomas Jentzsch, on Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:42 AM, said:

vdub_bobby, on Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:11 PM, said:

PressureCooker2600, on Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:07 AM, said:

Any thoughts on who's going to illustrate the manual or design it?

Maybe Nathan?

Depends...

I'd like to have a label contest.

Ok, Nathan then.

He only won once in 2006; he's slipping in his old age...

[almightytodd]

vdub_bobby, on Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:11 AM, said:

Changes: tweaked colors, added elevator change-of-direction sound effect when music isn't playing, changed scoring.
Any comments on the new colors:

Hey vdub,

First, let me say that I'm really enjoying following the development of this game in the forum. Thanks so much for sharing this with us and involving us in some of your design decisions. Personally, I liked the brighter colors of some of the earlier versions, but I can see where there isn't much realism in terms of colors that might be used as hotel hallway decor. Ultimately, you're the author, so you get to decide what looks "right" to you. I suppose it probably depends on who you think your target audience is for this game: If you are primarily concerned with aging classic gamers such as myself, the subdued, conservative color tones are probably more appropriate (...my preference for brighter colors not withstanding). If you are thinking of this as a "kid's game" - somewhere between Big Bird's Egg Catch and Air-Sea Battle, then the brighter colors might work better.

Thanks again for asking, and congratulations on a terrific new game!

[SpiceWare]

The new color scheme seems bland for an Atari game

[Albert]

SpiceWare, on Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:50 PM, said:

The new color scheme seems bland for an Atari game

I agree--I understand your wanting to make the colors more akin to what you might seen in a hotel (dull, boring browns and yellows), but I prefer the more colorful versions. That's one thing the Atari 2600 can do well is display a wide range of colors. It's not like we're rendering a realistic looking hotel anyway, so might as well take advantage of one of the 2600's few strengths. I still wish there was a way to change the background colors for each level, instead of just the color of the stairs and elevators.

..Al

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Albert, on Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:30 PM, said:

I still wish there was a way to change the background colors for each level...

Me too.

[vdub_bobby]

Quick update:  ElevatorsAmiss20070416.bin   4K   58 downloads

Changes: Fire button no longer affects the speed of the counter if you are not moving. Also, SELECT/RESET actions do as Manuel suggested.

Forgot to mention this above, but the between-level color changes happen when the maid is offscreen.

And I hear what you are saying about the colors, but...

I need a scheme to work with here. It just rubs me the wrong way to throw a bunch of rainbow colors up there just because I can. It seems lazy to me. Maybe I've just seen too many bad A8 title screens...

[vdub_bobby]

Thomas Jentzsch, on Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:19 PM, said:

Albert, on Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:30 PM, said:

I still wish there was a way to change the background colors for each level...

Me too.

Hm. It just occurred to me...it might be possible to switch between background color schemes.

In the tightest kernel loop I have 4 free cycles. I just realized - that would be enough time to change this:

   lda BackgroundColorTable-1,Y
   sta COLUBK;+7		 6

to this:

   lda BackgroundColorTable-1,Y
   eor ZeroPageRAM
   sta COLUBK	;+7		 6

It seems like it should be possible to pick colors and RAM values to get some decent results.

I'll look into this.

Edited by vdub_bobby, Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:34 PM.

[Albert]

vdub_bobby, on Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:29 PM, said:

And I hear what you are saying about the colors, but...

I need a scheme to work with here. It just rubs me the wrong way to throw a bunch of rainbow colors up there just because I can. It seems lazy to me. Maybe I've just seen too many bad A8 title screens...

Is having different background color schemes per level an impossibility? Because it might be cool to have different "hotels" each with a unique color scheme. Instead of just using the rainbow colors that you don't like.

..Al

[Thomas Jentzsch]

vdub_bobby, on Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:33 PM, said:

   lda BackgroundColorTable-1,Y
   eor ZeroPageRAM
   sta COLUBK;+7		 6

It seems like it should be possible to pick colors and RAM values to get some decent results.

Great. Maybe you want to try something like this:

   lda BackgroundColorTable-1,Y
   and ZeroPageRAM ; = $xf
   sta COLUBK;+7		 6

BackgroundColorTable:
   .byte $fe, $fc, $fa, $f8 ...

That way you will get some pretty nice gradients of the selected color.

[Nathan Strum]

vdub_bobby, on Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:43 AM, said:

He only won once in 2006; he's slipping in his old age...

Yep. I managed to get almost nothing done last year.