Dead 130xe

[simbalion]

Last night I was trying out my 130xe that I had originally intended to replace my 800 and 1200xl when I found more programs. I was trying out some BASIC commands when the computer suddenly froze and died. The screen turned green and there was no response from the keyboard at all. I tried shutting the computer down for a bit and then powering it back up, but it will only start so far and then either freeze, go to a black screen, or a green screen. Help?

[puppetmark]

Last night I was trying out my 130xe that I had originally intended to replace my 800 and 1200xl when I found more programs. I was trying out some BASIC commands when the computer suddenly froze and died. The screen turned green and there was no response from the keyboard at all. I tried shutting the computer down for a bit and then powering it back up, but it will only start so far and then either freeze, go to a black screen, or a green screen. Help?

 

 

The first thing to check is the PS. Are you getting 5V DC from the power brick? If you have a multimeter, test for DC and also test to make sure you are not getting any AC out.

 

If the Power Supply is fine, I would next check the RAM Chips. 130XE RAM chips are known to go bad. Check to see if one or two of the chips get much warmer than the rest. If they do, replace them. Most 130XEs have all there chips soldered, so you will have to deal with that.

[simbalion]

Thanks. I'll get things tested out when I get a chance. I have never had RAM problems with other Atari comps. Was the 130xe the only one to have those problems?

[puppetmark]

Thanks. I'll get things tested out when I get a chance. I have never had RAM problems with other Atari comps. Was the 130xe the only one to have those problems?

 

 

A bunch of the 13XEs and 65 XEs used cheaper american made RAM Chips. I believe they had a "TE" or "TS" marking on them. I have been fixing atari computers and accessories for over 15 years and these chips seem to fail much more than the japanese made chips.

 

These are the only models that seem to suffer from that problem. We can thank Jack Tramiel for the cost cutting!

[simbalion]

I have finally ruled out the power supply. I got a 600xl computer today and it works fine on the 130xe power supply. Looks like I have some dead RAM chips. Are these worth trying to repair?

[+Mitch]

Depends on your soldering skills. The RAM chips themselves aren't that expensive from what I remember.

 

Mitch

[Almost Rice]

I have finally ruled out the power supply. I got a 600xl computer today and it works fine on the 130xe power supply. Looks like I have some dead RAM chips. Are these worth trying to repair?

 

It is if you have the right tools. You need a soldering iron and solder sucker at the minimum. Do not get the soldering iron with a bulb. It does not suck worth a damn.

 

Also replace the left bank 1st. I believe that is the lower 64k. If you get good at it. I guess you can upgrade to 320k or 576k after you get it working. Remember to socket the replacement. In the end, it might be cheaper just to get another system if you do not have the tools on hand. Also, you would need to be good with the soldeing iron.

Edited December 4, 2006 by Almost Rice

[simbalion]

I am definitely a novice at soldering. Most soldering I have ever done has been a little on antique radios and I finally got a good looking joint last night. Usually my soldering looks like something from a bad dream!

[puppetmark]

I am definitely a novice at soldering. Most soldering I have ever done has been a little on antique radios and I finally got a good looking joint last night. Usually my soldering looks like something from a bad dream!

 

 

You definitely need good soldering skills to replace the Ram chips. Actually its the desoldering that is the problem more so than soldering the new sockets.

 

You can get Ram from here. Its pretty cheap:

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/se...&pa=41662PS

 

My suggestion would be to buy the chips and try to find someone that can replace them for you. Perhaps someone from a ham radio group. I think a 130XE is always worth fixing. These things are going to become more scarce as time goes on and I like to see them keep working. If you can't find anyone else, and you want to send me your 130XE, I will try to fix it for you. I am in eastern Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, due to my work schedule I won't have time to look at it till January. I would charge you for my time, and I am sure we could work out something fair.

[MEtalGuy66]

Yeah. That is the RAM.. (system hangs with green screen at power-up).. And the Ram that ATARI used on the 130xe (the versions that used 16 4164 DRAMs) was makred MT.. for Micron Technologies.. And it also says "USA" on it.. And yes.. It totally sucks ass and is the only DRAM Ive ever seen actually go bad from sitting..

 

Another thing that I'll mention is that the bad ram in question is going to be in the leftmost bank. This is because the right bank is extended ram, and won't hang the machine on start-up like that.

 

Also, chances are that once you replace the chip in question, another will go out of "working tolerances".. Those "MT" 4164 chips really were the crappiest RAM i've ever encountered on anything.. And ATARI knew it.. In many of those 130XE machines, the first chip in the left bank is a different brand.. heh. They did this because having one "good quality" chip helped to bring the rest of the bank into closer working tolerances.. Many 130xes will also have this first chip socketed from the factory.. This is because they initially tried to build it with all "MT" chips, and it failed on the assembly line.. Never pased the production test! So their incredibly cheap-assed fix was to swap out that first chip, which BARELY got the thing working..

 

This is the kind of quality that ATARI tried to (and did) pass off onto their loyal customers during the "Tramiel Years".. heh. Unbelievable... But true... Ive seen this on at least 30 machines..

 

So.. When I get a 130XE.. even if it works perfectly, passes all self-tests, passes the production tests, etc.. The first thing I do is take it apart.. If it is one of the models with 16 DRAM chips, I remove all of these chips and throw them in the garbage.. You can replace them with 4164s or 41256s if you want.. Either will work.. If you use 41256s, you can easily add the extra multiplexed adress line in the future to brink it up to a 320k system.

 

Bottom line is that if you want a stable machine, you need to replace all that DRAM.. Because it's garbage.. If you just want to stabilize the machine for normal 64k programs, you can get by with just replacing the left bank of chips. But if you use your extended RAM for anything, and you care about your data, you really need to replace all 16 DRAM chips. Yes this requires alot of meticulous and careful desoldering and resoldering.. Personally, I like to add sockets for every single chip and IC on the entire 130xe motherboard. This takes me about 5 hours of solid work to do.. But makes it where any chip level problem in the future can be quickly diagnosed & repaired just by swapping chips with a known good machine. This is the way the XE should have been from the factory.. It's a shame that the most advanced model of the 8-bit line was built so cheaply/poorly.

 

Now having said that.. Eventually, ATARI redesigned the 130XE motherboard to use only 4 DRAM chips.. These are 64k x 4bit chips (instead of the 64k x 1bit chips used in the older 16-chip models.) These newer 4-chip models rarely have DRAM related problems, and typically don't need the RAM replaced unless you want to upgrade it.

[puppetmark]

You Make a great point aboout that RAM MEtalGuy66. I stand corrected, they should ALL be replaced. they are like ticking time bombs waiting to go bad! I have the same 130Xe I bought in 1988. Sometime in '92 the RAM went bad. Every chip is now socketed, and all the ram has been replaced and upgraded.

 

It works like a charm ever since!

[simbalion]

I should have sensed problems when I tried three 1050 disk drives on the computer and couldn't get any to work. After the third one I thought it was cable. So, i bought a couple more cables at the flea market. After those didn't work I gave up and figured I was just finding crappy disk drives around here. Well, now one of the drives that wouldn't work with the 130xe works fine with the 1200xl. And of course the 130xe is dead. Makes a good paper weight right now.

[Rik]

Thanks. I'll get things tested out when I get a chance. I have never had RAM problems with other Atari comps. Was the 130xe the only one to have those problems?

 

 

A bunch of the 13XEs and 65 XEs used cheaper american made RAM Chips. I believe they had a "TE" or "TS" marking on them. I have been fixing atari computers and accessories for over 15 years and these chips seem to fail much more than the japanese made chips.

 

These are the only models that seem to suffer from that problem. We can thank Jack Tramiel for the cost cutting!

There we go again,another example of how JACKY BOY,helped to take ATARI down!and ruin its image on quality,cheap bastard!,and of course the Orientals products arent ALWAYS the cheapest quality!

Edited March 1, 2007 by Rik

[Tezz]

Hi All, is it documented anywhere or, does anyone here on AA know how to utilise the extra ram in the 41256 Dram chips that MetalGuy mentioned earlier in this thread..

 

MetalGuy66 If you use 41256s, you can easily add the extra multiplexed adress line in the future to brink it up to a 320k system.

I'm replacing all 16 of the XE's DRAM on my board with 41256's with the main intention of stability and using 41256's to bring the ram up to 320k in the process

 

Tezz

Edited March 4, 2007 by Tezz

[Tezz]

I think I found the doc here http://aland.roarvgm.com/mods/5.html

 

I can get 120ns 41256 drams easily, will these be ok? it says to use 150ns

[Tezz]

I think I found the doc here http://aland.roarvgm.com/mods/5.html

 

I can get 120ns 41256 drams easily, will these be ok? it says to use 150ns

Hey all, sorry to bump this thread but I'm about to order my parts today to repair the XE and upgrade it, does anyone know if 120ns 41256's will be ok to use in the XE rather than the recommended 150ns?

 

Thanks,

Tezz.

[re-atari]

I think I found the doc here http://aland.roarvgm.com/mods/5.html

 

I can get 120ns 41256 drams easily, will these be ok? it says to use 150ns

Hey all, sorry to bump this thread but I'm about to order my parts today to repair the XE and upgrade it, does anyone know if 120ns 41256's will be ok to use in the XE rather than the recommended 150ns?

 

Thanks,

Tezz.

Tezz,

 

Unless they are defective, the DRAM's will work without a hitch. The only difference is the speed in RAS access-time. Contrary to what you might expect the 120ns are actually faster than 150ns. Back in the days I upgraded a couple of 800XL's with 120ns and even 100ns 41256's without any problem.

In the A8 even 200ns should be ample, my first 800XL came fresh from the factory with OKI 3764's DRAMs rated at that speed. It never ever locked up. Later on I re-used these DRAM''s to upgrade a friend's 130XE to 192K. Worked like a charm.

 

re-atari

[Tezz]

Tezz,

 

Unless they are defective, the DRAM's will work without a hitch. The only difference is the speed in RAS access-time. Contrary to what you might expect the 120ns are actually faster than 150ns. Back in the days I upgraded a couple of 800XL's with 120ns and even 100ns 41256's without any problem.

In the A8 even 200ns should be ample, my first 800XL came fresh from the factory with OKI 3764's DRAMs rated at that speed. It never ever locked up. Later on I re-used these DRAM''s to upgrade a friend's 130XE to 192K. Worked like a charm.

 

re-atari

Thanks for your help Really appreciated That's great.

[mimo]

keep us posted as to how you get on. I may follow you with this mod.

Where are you getting the bits from?

 

Mike

[Tezz]

keep us posted as to how you get on. I may follow you with this mod.

Where are you getting the bits from?

 

Mike

Sure will do, photo's and all